Poll

What's the best album ever made? Your vote counts1

Gaucho - Steely Dan
1 (7.1%)
Katy Lied - Steely Dan
1 (7.1%)
Royal Scam - Steely Dan
5 (35.7%)
Can't Buy a Thrill - Steely Dan
4 (28.6%)
Any Steely Dan Album will do! WTF?
3 (21.4%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Author Topic: Best Album of All Time  (Read 6162 times)

S. cerevisiae

  • Guest
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #90 on: December 29, 2014, 04:53:45 PM »
With the exception of a few bands, hard rock in the sixties and the seventies can be summed up as the blues with the substitution of simple meter for compound meter and the loss of the 12-bar format.  The lion's share of tunes from that period contain simple i-iv-v minor chord progressions with basic chord substitutions/additions and pentatonic minor scale-based solos.  It wasn't until Randy Rhoads and Yngwie Malmsteen entered the stage that rock music took a hard right with respect to fusing classical with rock to form the style that pretty much dominated heavy rock in the eighties; namely, neoclassical fusion.  While the chord progressions and rhythm (meter) remained relatively simple, fast diatonic minor-based guitar solos with chromatic and modal playing mixed in for good measure dominated the landscape.  Before the eighties, only Uli Jon Roth and Ritchie Blackmore where skilled at using chromatic and modal diatonic passages in hard rock.

There's no hiding the classical influence in tunes like Mr. Crowley.  It was the first radio-friendly really heavy tune to showcase the classical hard turn that music was about to take. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D_9FIYZQ5c

Before the release of Blizzard of Oz, the heaviest classical influenced tune that I heard was "Sails of Charon" by the Scorpions.  Uli Jon has amazing control on this tune.  It was released before Van Halen's debut album shook the hard rock world like a 7.0 magnitude earthquake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoI7deS76Ck

With that said, since there appears to be a group of people on this forum that are around my age.  Has anyone ever heard of a band called Crack The Sky?  Although Crack The Sky formed in Weirton, WV (a town west of Pittsburgh), they were Led Zeppelin huge in Maryland.  Their music is hard to define other than it was very progressive for the era in which they recorded it.  Crack The Sky's first four albums (Crack The Sky, Animal Notes, Safety in Numbers, and Live Sky) are their best.  The album White Music is good, but it was recorded by a subset of the original band.   Crack The Sky performed a cool version of the "William Tell Overture" on Live Sky.  They also wrote about subjects that were taboo during the period (e.g., "She's a Dancer," http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9AQa_1frBI).   One of their funniest tunes is "We Got Mine," which was written about the bad of a deal that they cut with Lifesong Records (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UL7M9jUXZI).  The line "We haven't seen silver since the airplane crashed last year" is a reference to Jim Croce's death.  Jim was the marquee name on Lifesong Records.  A lineup that includes quite a few of the original members performs from time to time.  They can still rock for a bunch of old guys.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 02:37:21 PM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6229
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #91 on: January 01, 2015, 04:43:42 AM »
Sails of Charon is an absolutely brilliant piece of guitar work. I remember getting a "Best of Scorpions" tape for Christmas when I was a teenager. I was into heavy stuff like Metallica and Pantera at the time, so I didn't have any interest. I was expecting garbage like "Wind of Change". Instead I discovered gems like "Sails of Charon", "Virgin Killer" and "In Trance".

And while I agree that the popular hard rock of the 80s was an amalgam of Cream/Zep-esque blues rock infused with Blackmore/Rhodes influenced neoclassical guitar, progressive rock like Yes, King Crimson and Zappa broke the pentatonic blues mold years before even Uli and Ritchie. Prog just never had the mainstream influence outside of the occasional breakout like Rush.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9685
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #92 on: January 01, 2015, 03:31:35 PM »
.  It wasn't until Randy Rhodes and Yngwie Malmsteen entered the stage that rock music took a hard right with respect to fusing classical with...


You're a regular Rock historian. ;) I just wanted to brag that I saw Yngwie open up for Triumph in On Oct. 24th, 1986 at the Spectrum in Philadelphia.

Offline pete b

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3123
  • Barre, Ma
    • View Profile
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #93 on: January 01, 2015, 04:05:52 PM »
.  It wasn't until Randy Rhodes and Yngwie Malmsteen entered the stage that rock music took a hard right with respect to fusing classical with...


You're a regular Rock historian. ;) I just wanted to brag that I saw Yngwie open up for Triumph in On Oct. 24th, 1986 at the Spectrum in Philadelphia.
I saw Yngwie open for Mettalica in the eighties. I was in the 4th row for a Triumph concert at the Worcester Centrum in 1984. Mountain opened for them and I still have a drumstick I caught. Its printed with: "Corky Lainge, Stick it Good!"
S. cerevisiae should teach a course at the next NHC: "Hard Rock and Yeast: A very detailed History"  ;D
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8604
    • View Profile
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #94 on: January 01, 2015, 10:48:02 PM »
.  It wasn't until Randy Rhodes and Yngwie Malmsteen entered the stage that rock music took a hard right with respect to fusing classical with...


You're a regular Rock historian. ;) I just wanted to brag that I saw Yngwie open up for Triumph in On Oct. 24th, 1986 at the Spectrum in Philadelphia.
I saw Yngwie open for Mettalica in the eighties. I was in the 4th row for a Triumph concert at the Worcester Centrum in 1984. Mountain opened for them and I still have a drumstick I caught. Its printed with: "Corky Lainge, Stick it Good!"
S. cerevisiae should teach a course at the next NHC: "Hard Rock and Yeast: A very detailed History"  ;D
Bueller?             Bueller?             Bueller?

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #95 on: January 01, 2015, 11:30:10 PM »
I was in the 4th row for a Triumph concert at the Worcester Centrum in 1984. Mountain opened for them


That's pretty cool. I saw Triumph a couple times back in the day and Mountain opened up for them the last time. Good show.
Jon H.

S. cerevisiae

  • Guest
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #96 on: January 02, 2015, 02:15:06 AM »
And while I agree that the popular hard rock of the 80s was an amalgam of Cream/Zep-esque blues rock infused with Blackmore/Rhodes influenced neoclassical guitar, progressive rock like Yes, King Crimson and Zappa broke the pentatonic blues mold years before even Uli and Ritchie. Prog just never had the mainstream influence outside of the occasional breakout like Rush.

I was speaking strictly of mainstream hard/heavy rock.  Progressive rock was an entirely different animal.  Seventies progressive rock was an amalgamation of many genres.  After all, Steely Dan is often classified as a progressive rock band, and they were heavily influenced by jazz thanks in large part to Denny Diaz.  King Crimson does not sound anything like Yes, and Yes does not sound anything like Genesis. The band I mentioned above, Crack the Sky, was a heavy progressive rock band that often blurred the line between progressive rock and hard rock.

If one compares hard rock/metal of the eighties to hard rock/metal of the seventies, it's difficult to miss the classical influence.  There's less bending, more diatonic and chromatic runs (the shift from a five-note scale to seven and twelve-note scales coupled with efficient picking techniques is what made lightning fast solos possible), and arpeggiated fretboard tapping became a staple after Eddie recorded Eruption.   Billy Gibbons used fretboard tapping before Eddie, but not to the same devastating effect.  Les Paul used sweep picking back in the fifties when he was recoding with Mary Ford, but not like Yngwie Malmsteem.   Mainstream rock guitar became amazingly technical in the eighties.  It seemed like every mainstream hard rock guitarist wanted to be a modern version of Niccolo Paganini.


S. cerevisiae

  • Guest
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #97 on: January 02, 2015, 02:17:53 AM »
You're a regular Rock historian. ;) I just wanted to brag that I saw Yngwie open up for Triumph in On Oct. 24th, 1986 at the Spectrum in Philadelphia.

That must have been a great concert.  Rik Emmett is one of the most underrated rock singers and guitarists on the planet.

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9685
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #98 on: January 02, 2015, 02:19:25 AM »
You're a regular Rock historian. ;) I just wanted to brag that I saw Yngwie open up for Triumph in On Oct. 24th, 1986 at the Spectrum in Philadelphia.

That must have been a great concert. Rik Emmett is one of the most underrated rock singers and guitarists on the planet.

I absolutely agree! And have been saying that for years!

S. cerevisiae

  • Guest
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #99 on: January 02, 2015, 02:26:39 AM »
I saw Yngwie open for Mettalica in the eighties. I was in the 4th row for a Triumph concert at the Worcester Centrum in 1984. Mountain opened for them and I still have a drumstick I caught. Its printed with: "Corky Lainge, Stick it Good!"

Mountain is one of my favorite bands.  It's weird how Felix Pappalardi took what he learned at Atlantic Records while producing Disraeli Gears and used it to create an American version of Cream.

Quote

S. cerevisiae should teach a course at the next NHC: "Hard Rock and Yeast: A very detailed History"  ;D

I have a tendency to become immersed in my hobbies. :)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 02:53:04 AM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #100 on: January 02, 2015, 03:26:48 AM »
You're a regular Rock historian. ;) I just wanted to brag that I saw Yngwie open up for Triumph in On Oct. 24th, 1986 at the Spectrum in Philadelphia.

That must have been a great concert. Rik Emmett is one of the most underrated rock singers and guitarists on the planet.

I absolutely agree! And have been saying that for years!

I've said that,too. Great guitarist.
Jon H.

Offline erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6229
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #101 on: January 02, 2015, 12:59:59 PM »
And while I agree that the popular hard rock of the 80s was an amalgam of Cream/Zep-esque blues rock infused with Blackmore/Rhodes influenced neoclassical guitar, progressive rock like Yes, King Crimson and Zappa broke the pentatonic blues mold years before even Uli and Ritchie. Prog just never had the mainstream influence outside of the occasional breakout like Rush.

I was speaking strictly of mainstream hard/heavy rock.  Progressive rock was an entirely different animal.  Seventies progressive rock was an amalgamation of many genres.  After all, Steely Dan is often classified as a progressive rock band, and they were heavily influenced by jazz thanks in large part to Denny Diaz.  King Crimson does not sound anything like Yes, and Yes does not sound anything like Genesis. The band I mentioned above, Crack the Sky, was a heavy progressive rock band that often blurred the line between progressive rock and hard rock.
I'll have to check them out sometime soon. Speaking of progressive rock as an influence on more modern metal bands, Mastodon's best work to date (arguably) is their album Crack the Skye. I can't help but wonder if there's a connection somehow.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline pete b

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3123
  • Barre, Ma
    • View Profile
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #102 on: January 02, 2015, 01:41:19 PM »
Quote from: S. cerevisiae link=topic=19935.msg273083#msg273083 date=1420165599

[quote

S. cerevisiae should teach a course at the next NHC: "Hard Rock and Yeast: A very detailed History"  ;D

I have a tendency to become immersed in my hobbies. :)
[/quote]
To our benefit!
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.

Offline pete b

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3123
  • Barre, Ma
    • View Profile
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #103 on: January 02, 2015, 01:50:02 PM »
I must say that although I was very much into it at the time the classical based hard rock has not withstood the test of time for me like blues based rock has. I think one reason is that I don't play an instrument and probably don't have the same level of appreciation for virtuosity as some of you do. More importantly I just don't think the songwriting both in terms of lyrics and overall structure was very strong with that type of music, with some exceptions. I rarely feel moved to listen to metallica or Van Halen anymore. I'm always happy to listen to Led Zep, Allman Bros. Etc, etc., etc.
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.

S. cerevisiae

  • Guest
Re: Best Album of All Time
« Reply #104 on: January 02, 2015, 03:49:34 PM »
The good neoclassical rock tunes have stood the test of time.  However, things did get a little out of hand.  Seventies rock has been kept alive by bar bands because it's at least an order of magnitude easier to play.  A lot of guitarists who cut their teeth during the seventies fell out during the eighties because the material was too darn difficult to master. 

Have you ever listened to any of Andy Timmons' solo work (he used to play in Danger Danger in the late eighties)?  His instrumental "Electric Gypsy" is a beautiful fusion of late sixties/seventies and eighties guitar styles.  The tune starts off with the style of guitar invented by R&B legend Curtis Mayfield and entered into the rock lexicon by Jimi Hendrix on "Little Wing."   It then trades off blues rock passages with eighties-based neoclassical passages.  The tapped melody is amazing.  It's one thing to tap out arpeggios on areas of the fretboard were harmonics are easy to create, and a totally different thing to tap out a melody.

Studio version of Electric Gypsy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXCcGgaeX1I

A live version of the tune
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_udvU3Wi9g


Another guy who is relatively unknown outside of the guitar world is Guthrie Govan.  He too writes instrumentals.  His style would best be described as shred-jazz fusion.  I like to think of Guthrie as Yngwie for grown ups. 

Wonderful Slippery Thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01gzVYDV5B8

Waves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U75g2mDTXtA&list=RDU75g2mDTXtA

Edit: fixed links
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 10:34:07 PM by S. cerevisiae »