Author Topic: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?  (Read 1130 times)

Online HoosierBrew

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2014, 02:59:09 PM »
Chinook was the first hop I encountered that made me fully appreciate the term "catty;" however, it is like a breath of fresh air compared to Simcoe. Simcoe is cat funk central.

Interesting, I have never perceived that from Chinook. But like Eric mentioned, it's pretty interesting to hear people describe what they get from specific hops. Like I said, I don't doubt that some character is directly growing conditions/harvest related, but it seems that people just plain process the aromas differently. Some people hate Simcoe in anything , others love it. I love it except for when I get a really catty end result from it. I perceive Citra as mostly orange/peach, where others say it's straight tropical with occasional cattiness (which I've never noticed). I get straight piney blueberries from Mosaic, others a generic fruitiness. On and on.
  Definitely the hops blended together play a role in overall perceptions. But I guess that's where experimentation needs to come in.
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Offline goschman

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2014, 03:33:20 PM »
I grew up with cats and have two now so am well aware of what funkiness can be present. I have never gotten the 'catty' notes that are always discussed however I have noticed the garlic/onion notes that some discuss in correlation with Summit in commercial beers. I have never brewed with Summit. Just like anything, everyone's perception, thresholds, and tastes are different.

My buddy told me over the weekend that he was a 'supertaster' which I have never heard of. Maybe he can taste cat piss in things that I cannot...

For my pale ales I have recently started doing 60 min, 10 min, hopstand addition for 30 min, and dry hop. I will throw hops in the keg if I undershot the hop character I was going for.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 03:40:58 PM by goschman »
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Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2014, 03:59:10 PM »
Chinook was the first hop I encountered that made me fully appreciate the term "catty;" however, it is like a breath of fresh air compared to Simcoe. Simcoe is cat funk central.
Yes. I must say that Chinook grown in MI is not so catty. Pros who get from the farms up north agree. A pro homebrewer friend likes the ones grown in my back yard. From what I have read it depends on soil and harvest time if you get the cat pee. My wife is very sensitive to it, she hates Simcoe, so I should know if it is the beers I make with homegrown Chinook.
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Offline trapae

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2014, 04:08:15 PM »
So it sounds like, for an APA or IPA, most people who whirlpool hop use little to no boil additions other than bittering.  I will be doing my first brew with this technique on Saturday with the recipe below.  We will see how it goes.

Batch Size: 5.85 gal   Style: American Pale Ale (10A)
Boil Size: 8.00 gal   
Color: 6.4
Bitterness: 38.0 IBUs   Boil Time: 60 min
Est OG: 1.055 (13.5° P)
Est FG: 1.013 SG (3.3° P)
ABV: 5.6%   

Ingredients
Amount   Name   Type   #
9 lbs 8.5 oz   Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)   Grain   1
1 lbs 1.0 oz   Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)   Grain   2
8.5 oz   Honey Malt (25.0 SRM)   Grain   3
4.2 oz   Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)   Grain   4
0.3 oz   Magnum [14.0%] - Boil 60 min   Hops   5
0.50   Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5 min)   Misc   6
1.0 oz   Centennial [10.0%] - Steep 30 min   Hops   7
0.5 oz   Amarillo Gold [8.5%] - Steep 30 min   Hops   8
1.0 oz   Cascade [5.5%] - Steep 30 min   Hops   9
2 pkgs   German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) or 001
0.8 oz   Cascade [5.5%] - Dry Hop 4 days   Hops   11
0.5 oz   Amarillo Gold [8.5%] - Dry Hop 4 days   Hops   12

Mash 154 for 60 min
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Online duboman

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2014, 05:13:56 PM »
Personally I would bump up the dry hops to 1oz each and mash at 150, just my thought.

I find anything less than 2oz+ dry hopping really doesn't do much.

I also like my pales drier and crisper, hence the lower mash temp.
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Offline trapae

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2014, 05:35:27 PM »
Good thoughts, thanks.  I've never used amarillo before.   Hope they play well with cascades and centennials.
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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2014, 05:46:43 PM »
Those three hops work very well together.

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2014, 05:46:55 PM »
+1.  I like 2 -2.5 oz dry hops in a 5 gallon APA.  Also, the 8.5 oz of honey malt will leave a noticeable sweetness - not cloying, but noticeable. Personally, I'd use 4 oz of biscuit or Victory and the other 4 or 5 oz in the form of more Munich and drop the honey altogether. Personal preference - you're gonna make a good beer !
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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2014, 05:48:57 PM »


So it sounds like, for an APA or IPA, most people who whirlpool hop use little to no boil additions other than bittering.  I will be doing my first brew with this technique on Saturday with the recipe below.  We will see how it goes.
Bingo. The main purpose for hop stands and whirlpool additions is to extract flavor and aroma from hops without boiling them off. Steep additions give a lot more flavor than late boil additions, so if you're using this technique you would typically use it in lieu of late kettle additions.
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Offline trapae

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2014, 08:46:57 PM »
So I just looked in my freezer and realized I don't have any amarillo, but I do have a couple oz of mt hood.  What does everyone think about subbing the amarillo in the recipe above for mt hood.  I haven't used that combo.  I know denny uses mt hood in his rye smile.
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Online HoosierBrew

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2014, 04:37:13 AM »
So I just looked in my freezer and realized I don't have any amarillo, but I do have a couple oz of mt hood.  What does everyone think about subbing the amarillo in the recipe above for mt hood.  I haven't used that combo.  I know denny uses mt hood in his rye smile.

Do it, it'll be good. I use Mt Hood in IPA blends too, on occasion.
Jon H.

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2014, 05:40:16 AM »
Except for Simcoe to me.....sometimes.  I love the hop and have used it at a lot of different times and methods and don't find the cattiness more common in late hopping vs hop stand vs dry hopping . I often times don't get it at all. But I'd love to figure it out or see some convincing study info along the lines of the posted study. So for the time being, I'm convinced some or most of the 'cat pee' thing is harvest/ grower/ 'terroir' related.

I was talking with a Cincinnati brewer at a recent contest and he also pointed to a study that said off flavor may be coming from improperly harvested hops. He said there is an article out there somewhere that points to growers harvesting their crop later than desirable in a quest to improve the alpha rating of their crop. Hop pricing is apparently also based on their alpha content. So the word is that hop cones that have already peaked on the bine could then develop those off flavors. Those of you that grow your own hops, know that there are hops of differing maturity on the bines at any time. They are not uniformly mature.
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Offline S. cerevisiae

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2014, 08:12:17 AM »
Do it, it'll be good. I use Mt Hood in IPA blends too, on occasion.

+1  Mt. Hood has always been one of my "go to" hops when making APA.  It blends beautifully with Cascade.
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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2014, 08:58:44 AM »
My buddy told me over the weekend that he was a 'supertaster' which I have never heard of. Maybe he can taste cat piss in things that I cannot...

Have him try this....

Are You a Supertaster?
Roughly 35 percent of women and 15 percent of men are supertasters. These folks have been given a special skill. No,
they can’t fight crime. Their palates are much more sensitive to a number of flavors, especially bitter. You can test to see
if you’re one of the lucky ducks with a bit of food coloring, a hole reinforcement label (the things you put on a punched
paper to prevent it from ripping out of a binder), and a good camera.
Douse a cotton swab with blue food coloring. Paint the front of your tongue with dye.
Carefully place a reinforcement label on your tongue in the colored section.
Take a photo of your tongue and zoom in on the hole. Count the number of pink dots inside the circle. These are the
papillae that house your taste buds.
If you count more than thirty-five, you’re probably a supertaster and have a legitimate reason for hating broccoli.
Below fifteen? Oh boy, you’re a nontaster. If you’re in the middle, welcome to being perfectly average!
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Offline brewsumore

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Re: Hopstand/whirlpool + boil additions? Who does what?
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2014, 09:10:27 AM »
My buddy told me over the weekend that he was a 'supertaster' which I have never heard of. Maybe he can taste cat piss in things that I cannot...

Have him try this....

Are You a Supertaster?
Roughly 35 percent of women and 15 percent of men are supertasters. These folks have been given a special skill. No,
they can’t fight crime. Their palates are much more sensitive to a number of flavors, especially bitter. You can test to see
if you’re one of the lucky ducks with a bit of food coloring, a hole reinforcement label (the things you put on a punched
paper to prevent it from ripping out of a binder), and a good camera.
Douse a cotton swab with blue food coloring. Paint the front of your tongue with dye.
Carefully place a reinforcement label on your tongue in the colored section.
Take a photo of your tongue and zoom in on the hole. Count the number of pink dots inside the circle. These are the
papillae that house your taste buds.
If you count more than thirty-five, you’re probably a supertaster and have a legitimate reason for hating broccoli.
Below fifteen? Oh boy, you’re a nontaster. If you’re in the middle, welcome to being perfectly average!

Amazing!  Now you have me curious as to where I'm at.  I'm thinking that if I do the test it will help me identify to what extent my affinity for food and beverages is related to my tastebuds density!