Author Topic: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions  (Read 4902 times)

Offline The Professor

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2014, 04:32:38 PM »
I'm currently planning to mash at 151. When formulating my recipe, BeerSmith says I should hit 1.026 FG. Then again, you really can never nail the FG perfectly with bigger beers. Only about 9% specialty grains, so I'm thinking that will also help the attenuation.

Got a recipe? 1.026 sounds kinda high.  I would mash at 148 for 90-120 minutes

I don't think 1.026 is too high at all for a beer like that.

+1
That's about where I would expect a good barleywine/Burton ale to end up, hopefully (and properly) with a mildly sweet finish.
I also wouldn't even consider drinking it until it's aged at least one year (or preferably longer)...all the more reason to brew it more often. ;D
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2014, 04:37:06 PM »
I recommend starting the English Barleywine off with 002, then pitching a small active starter of 001 after about 75% attenuation to help it finish a little drier.  This will give you the English ester profile, while also allowing the beer to finish a little drier through use of the Chico strain.  The best of both worlds in one beer.
Ron Price

Offline majorvices

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2014, 05:14:04 PM »

I recommend starting the English Barleywine off with 002, then pitching a small active starter of 001 after about 75% attenuation to help it finish a little drier.  This will give you the English ester profile, while also allowing the beer to finish a little drier through use of the Chico strain.  The best of both worlds in one beer.

Why not just use WLP007?

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2014, 05:16:32 PM »
I cut the crystal down to 2#, but I will wait to see how the yeast attenuates before I add any sugar. If I need it lower, I'll add some invert sugar after I get a stable FG. I don't think I'll have any issues getting the beer to where I need it.

Sugar would help it attenuate if you had subbed some sugar for base malt.  But if it's having problems attenuating, adding sugar will jsut raise the gravity and exacerbate the problem.

I think a lot of people don't get this. The common thought is that adding sugar dries out the beer. Thats only half right. If a certain grain bill is going to leave 10 points of unfermentable sugars, ADDING cane sugar does not SUBTRACT those 10 points. If you subtract those points from the grain bill and replace them with cane, you end up with less unfermentable sugars at the end, but still the same OG. Therefore, not the same plan as "add sugar to dry it out"

Offline erockrph

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2014, 06:52:26 PM »
+1 - It should be phrased as "SUBSTITUTE sugar to dry it out"
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2014, 06:55:41 PM »
+1 - It should be phrased as "SUBSTITUTE sugar to dry it out"

+2
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2014, 04:44:32 PM »

I recommend starting the English Barleywine off with 002, then pitching a small active starter of 001 after about 75% attenuation to help it finish a little drier.  This will give you the English ester profile, while also allowing the beer to finish a little drier through use of the Chico strain.  The best of both worlds in one beer.

Why not just use WLP007?

That too!
Ron Price

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2014, 03:49:49 PM »
I cut the crystal down to 2#, but I will wait to see how the yeast attenuates before I add any sugar. If I need it lower, I'll add some invert sugar after I get a stable FG. I don't think I'll have any issues getting the beer to where I need it.

Sugar would help it attenuate if you had subbed some sugar for base malt.  But if it's having problems attenuating, adding sugar will jsut raise the gravity and exacerbate the problem.

I think a lot of people don't get this. The common thought is that adding sugar dries out the beer. Thats only half right. If a certain grain bill is going to leave 10 points of unfermentable sugars, ADDING cane sugar does not SUBTRACT those 10 points. If you subtract those points from the grain bill and replace them with cane, you end up with less unfermentable sugars at the end, but still the same OG. Therefore, not the same plan as "add sugar to dry it out"

And to add to this, if your yeast are maxed out and you add more sugar you may not even convince the yeast to push through all that extra sugar and then you'll end up with more sweetness rather than less.
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Offline archstanton

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #53 on: July 30, 2014, 04:35:16 PM »
I cut the crystal down to 2#, but I will wait to see how the yeast attenuates before I add any sugar. If I need it lower, I'll add some invert sugar after I get a stable FG. I don't think I'll have any issues getting the beer to where I need it.

Sugar would help it attenuate if you had subbed some sugar for base malt.  But if it's having problems attenuating, adding sugar will jsut raise the gravity and exacerbate the problem.

I think a lot of people don't get this. The common thought is that adding sugar dries out the beer. Thats only half right. If a certain grain bill is going to leave 10 points of unfermentable sugars, ADDING cane sugar does not SUBTRACT those 10 points. If you subtract those points from the grain bill and replace them with cane, you end up with less unfermentable sugars at the end, but still the same OG. Therefore, not the same plan as "add sugar to dry it out"

Interesting, so what you are saying is that if I add a pound of cane sugar into a recipe of say 12# of maris otter that resulting beer will not be perceived as drier than  a beer from the 12#'s alone?

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #54 on: July 30, 2014, 04:47:16 PM »
I cut the crystal down to 2#, but I will wait to see how the yeast attenuates before I add any sugar. If I need it lower, I'll add some invert sugar after I get a stable FG. I don't think I'll have any issues getting the beer to where I need it.

Sugar would help it attenuate if you had subbed some sugar for base malt.  But if it's having problems attenuating, adding sugar will jsut raise the gravity and exacerbate the problem.

I think a lot of people don't get this. The common thought is that adding sugar dries out the beer. Thats only half right. If a certain grain bill is going to leave 10 points of unfermentable sugars, ADDING cane sugar does not SUBTRACT those 10 points. If you subtract those points from the grain bill and replace them with cane, you end up with less unfermentable sugars at the end, but still the same OG. Therefore, not the same plan as "add sugar to dry it out"

Interesting, so what you are saying is that if I add a pound of cane sugar into a recipe of say 12# of maris otter that resulting beer will not be perceived as drier than  a beer from the 12#'s alone?

not significantly. there will be slightly more alcohol and should be no perceptible change otherwise. now, if you  added say 5 lbs of sugar to the 12 lb of MO you would end up with a noticably higher alcohol sensation and a very difference beer, and the FG might well be slightly lower than the 12# MO alone because alcohol is less dense than water or sugar solution.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #55 on: July 30, 2014, 04:52:03 PM »
I can't guess what another person will perceive. I'm just saying that it will still have the same unfermented sugar. One would be (for example) a 1.060 beer that finished at 1.015 then the one with sugar added would be like 1.070 but still finishing at 1.015.  If you did that same set of beer but substituted instead of adding... both OGs would be the same but the one will sugar substituted for grain woul finish much lower.

Offline archstanton

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2014, 10:48:21 PM »
 I have not seen anyone claim that you will ferment those leftover sugars by adding simple sugar. Merely that apparent attenuation will increase, which will increase the alcohol, which will increase the perception of dryness. FG without knowing OG is a very difficult means by which to assess how dry a beer might be. Apparent attenuation can give you a really good idea.

A pound of sugar in my example would/could increase the abv from say 6% to 7%, which I would say is significant(I'm a lightweight), and would create a different beer- drier for instance.  Hence the use of simple sugar to help "dry out a beer". 

Am I missing something here?

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2014, 10:58:20 PM »
I have not seen anyone claim that you will ferment those leftover sugars by adding simple sugar. Merely that apparent attenuation will increase, which will increase the alcohol, which will increase the perception of dryness. FG without knowing OG is a very difficult means by which to assess how dry a beer might be. Apparent attenuation can give you a really good idea.

A pound of sugar in my example would/could increase the abv from say 6% to 7%, which I would say is significant(I'm a lightweight), and would create a different beer- drier for instance.  Hence the use of simple sugar to help "dry out a beer". 

Am I missing something here?

i don't perceive a 7% beer with a 1.015 FG as any drier than a 6% beer with an FG of 1.015. in fact, I find higher alcohol content to taste sweeter rather than drier. I have at home a wheat wine that started at 1.104 and finished around 1.007 because of 3 lb of simple sugar. it tastes quite dry indeed but the alcohol still provides a very nice sweetness even as it evaporates off the tongue.

what we are trying to say is that a 6% beer made with all malt and a 6% beer made with malt and table sugar will have significantly different perceived dryness/sweetness. While a 6% beer and a 7% beer can taste quite difference because of the alcohol, if the extra alcohol comes from table sugar alone the perception of sweetness will not change significantly.

Adding simple sugar to a recipe is good for

a) bumping gravity and therefore ABV with minimal flavor/body change. this is the case when you simply ADD sugar to your recipe.
b) lightening body without change in ABV. this is the case when you SUBSTITUTE sugar for some of the malt as in a belgian beer.

take a belgian blonde around 6% and compare it to an american amber at about 6%. It will seem as if the belgian blonde is much lighter and dryer. More digestible as the belgians put it. while the Amber will be quite sweet and malty in comparison.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2014, 11:09:01 PM »
What Mort said...... that pretty much covers it.
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Offline archstanton

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Re: Barleywine Yeast Suggestions
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2014, 11:16:25 PM »
So you are saying that alcohol does not lead to a perception of dryness?

If I make a margarita too sweet, I can dry it out by adding more tequila. No?