Author Topic: Noble Hops v Magnum for bittering in Belgian Tripel/Golden  (Read 2745 times)

Offline mchrispen

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Noble Hops v Magnum for bittering in Belgian Tripel/Golden
« on: August 18, 2014, 02:04:15 AM »
 A question for the more experienced brewers here. I have been using Magnum or Northern Brewer for the bittering addition for my Belgian Tripels and Goldens. Tripels have been slightly off compared to 'real' tripels, goldens have been good. Similar grain bills, but different yeasts.


So has anyone used the relatively large amounts of noble hops (thinking Hallertau Mitt) for bittering and flavor additions vs. a much smaller german Magnum bittering - and then Hallertau/Saaz for flavor/aroma additions?


Might also be the yeast, but the goldens are coming out as expected on Wyeast 1388 with a Magnum bittering... but using Wyeast 3787 for a tripel, not so much. Going to pitch a big tripel onto 3522 (Ardennes) starter later this week... wondering if I should rely on the yeast... or swap out that Magnum for some 'finer' noble bittering? Will pitch cool and let rise to ambient (74F max).
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Noble Hops v Magnum for bittering in Belgian Tripel/Golden
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2014, 12:52:46 PM »
I always use magnum to bitter my Belgians. In my experience cooler fermentation a work better for Belgians. I ferment at 64 for the first 72 hours or so.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Noble Hops v Magnum for bittering in Belgian Tripel/Golden
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2014, 12:56:50 PM »
A question for the more experienced brewers here. I have been using Magnum or Northern Brewer for the bittering addition for my Belgian Tripels and Goldens. Tripels have been slightly off compared to 'real' tripels, goldens have been good. Similar grain bills, but different yeasts.


So has anyone used the relatively large amounts of noble hops (thinking Hallertau Mitt) for bittering and flavor additions vs. a much smaller german Magnum bittering - and then Hallertau/Saaz for flavor/aroma additions?


Might also be the yeast, but the goldens are coming out as expected on Wyeast 1388 with a Magnum bittering... but using Wyeast 3787 for a tripel, not so much. Going to pitch a big tripel onto 3522 (Ardennes) starter later this week... wondering if I should rely on the yeast... or swap out that Magnum for some 'finer' noble bittering? Will pitch cool and let rise to ambient (74F max).

Magnum is a very clean bittering hop. I use it for bittering in Belgians and even lagers pretty regularly. By 'being off as compared to real tripels', I'm not sure what you mean. Not bitter enough ?
Jon H.

Offline mchrispen

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Re: Noble Hops v Magnum for bittering in Belgian Tripel/Golden
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2014, 01:20:19 PM »
Quote
Magnum is a very clean bittering hop. I use it for bittering in Belgians and even lagers pretty regularly. By 'being off as compared to real tripels', I'm not sure what you mean. Not bitter enough ?


I agree - it's been my go-to bittering for a while.



I just got back from a Belgium trip. Most of the tripels, including Westmalle, seemed to have a much smoother bitterness, and lighter fragrance (late hops I know). Comparing my tripel against some Westmalle, Karmeliat and St. Bernardus brought back, the bittering just doesn't seem correct. Not sure I can put my finger on it. A bit like the difference between FWH and a 60 minute addition? Maybe the freshness of the flavor/aroma additions.
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Offline denny

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Re: Noble Hops v Magnum for bittering in Belgian Tripel/Golden
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2014, 02:36:44 PM »
FWIW, when I'm making my "very much like Westmalle" beer (I just can't take the word "clone"), I use FWH.  I'm pretty certain Westmalle doesn't do that, but it got me the beer I was looking for.  Maybe try playing around with that.
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Offline mchrispen

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Re: Noble Hops v Magnum for bittering in Belgian Tripel/Golden
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2014, 04:10:47 PM »
Thanks Denny - that was where my head was leaning.


Not really looking to clone anything, just want a more authentic 'belgian' tripel. Will play around with bringing forward some of the nobles to FWH and see what happens.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Noble Hops v Magnum for bittering in Belgian Tripel/Golden
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2014, 05:50:58 PM »
FWIW, when I'm making my "very much like Westmalle" beer (I just can't take the word "clone"), I use FWH.  I'm pretty certain Westmalle doesn't do that, but it got me the beer I was looking for.  Maybe try playing around with that.

+1.  My most recent dubbel used a FWH instead of a 60 minutes addition for bittering and it comes across very smooth and clean. 

Offline erockrph

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Re: Noble Hops v Magnum for bittering in Belgian Tripel/Golden
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2014, 07:37:44 PM »
FWIW, when I'm making my "very much like Westmalle" beer (I just can't take the word "clone"), I use FWH.  I'm pretty certain Westmalle doesn't do that, but it got me the beer I was looking for.  Maybe try playing around with that.

I've started using FWH for most of my Belgians and lagers. Regardless of whether it's authentic or not, it gets me the results I enjoy the best.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Noble Hops v Magnum for bittering in Belgian Tripel/Golden
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2014, 11:53:41 PM »
Boy, I recently got jumped all over by AJ when I recommended that using a high alpha hop like Magnum was preferrable for the bittering charge than using Noble hops for bittering in continental Pils. I am happy to hear some confirmation in other styles.

I personally like to keep the vegetative content as low as possible in the kettle and using high alpha hops in a bittering capacity makes sense to me.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Noble Hops v Magnum for bittering in Belgian Tripel/Golden
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2014, 12:14:21 AM »


I personally like to keep the vegetative content as low as possible in the kettle and using high alpha hops in a bittering capacity makes sense to me.

That was always my thought too, Martin.  I still find Magnum very clean and unobtrusive in spite of its fairly high AA, even in lagers.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 12:49:58 AM by HoosierBrew »
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Offline mchrispen

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Re: Noble Hops v Magnum for bittering in Belgian Tripel/Golden
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2014, 12:59:54 AM »
Quote
got jumped all over by AJ


It is amusing to watch ya'll. Especially the battle over hoppy beers and sulfate.


- - -


So the FWH that Palmer describes uses 'finishing' hops as opposed to the bittering charge. I think I have settled on that - stick with a smaller Magnum bittering addition, no middle addition and just a very small late addition for some aroma. I have subbed FWH for the 60 minute addition in the past and still loaded up the steep additions... makes a good APA, but appears technically I was doing it wrong.


So for 10.5 gallon


FWH : 9.6 AAU Hallertauer / 56 g 4.8% AA Hallertauer
60 Minutes:  6 AAU German Magnum / 14 g 12% AA Magnum
10 Minutes: 4.8 AAU Halllertauer + 4 AAU Saaz / 28 g 4.8% AA Hallertauer + 28 g 4% AA Saaz


Should still yield about 36-ish IBU, unless I am doing the maths wrong. It's a 90 minute boil - so the FWH skews it a bit. Or - am I doing this wrong ? :)
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