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Author Topic: Newbie Malt Question  (Read 8805 times)

S. cerevisiae

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2014, 09:07:09 am »
Read up on temp control, you want to be able to keep the yeast in the golden zone (low 60's for most ales, low 50's for most lagers).

It is not necessary to ferment ales in the low sixties.  That's a sign that one has basic biological quality control issues. Fermenting ales in the low sixties masks poor sanitation and yeast management practices because house microflora tend to be temperature sensitive. 

Offline Bill Wallace

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2014, 09:09:36 am »

http://www.homebrewing.org/Grains-by-the-Bag-_c_197.html  (Is this a good deal, or can I do better?)

You traded at CBOE and want us to tell you if it's a good deal?  ;D

I applaud the determination to jump in the deep end but you may want to spend a few more weeks reading and asking questions before you start buying bulk sacks.

I traded at the Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT).  The Chicago Board Options Exchange (CBOE) is across the street...but you can take the catwalk if you're a member.

Ok, I'll brew from a kit for my first foray.  But I still have a few questions.

When I asked if it was a good deal, I meant in relation to what WG brewers usually pay.  CBOT wheat is trading around $6 a bushel, which brings up my other question.  At $70 for 55 pounds delivered for say, wheat, that is crazy expensive.  At that price, a bushel (60 pounds, I believe) would trade at $60.  So why is beer grain so expensive? 

Offline denny

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2014, 09:10:56 am »
Read up on temp control, you want to be able to keep the yeast in the golden zone (low 60's for most ales, low 50's for most lagers).

It is not necessary to ferment ales in the low sixties.  That's a sign that one has basic biological quality control issues. Fermenting ales in the low sixties masks poor sanitation and yeast management practices because house microflora tend to be temperature sensitive.

Or it's a way to develop the flavors you want in your own beer.  Please don't tell me how to brew when I've done enough experimentation to know what I like.  But fell free to brew any way you want to, and I promise I won't tell you it's wrong.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline Bill Wallace

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2014, 09:11:25 am »
While I commend your enthusiasm, I'm also willing to bet that the $20K entertainment center was not your first project.  You probably did some smaller projects first to learn about equipment and processes.  I recommend you approach homebrewing the same way in order to have the greatest chance of success.

Good point!!!  I'll start with a kit.

Offline Stevie

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2014, 09:14:29 am »
When I asked if it was a good deal, I meant in relation to what WG brewers usually pay.  CBOT wheat is trading around $6 a bushel, which brings up my other question.  At $70 for 55 pounds delivered for say, wheat, that is crazy expensive.  At that price, a bushel (60 pounds, I believe) would trade at $60.  So why is beer grain so expensive?


Because it is malted and kilned or roasted. The process has costs.


Why is gasoline is more expensive than crude oil.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2014, 09:36:05 am »

Read up on temp control, you want to be able to keep the yeast in the golden zone (low 60's for most ales, low 50's for most lagers). Also read up on yeast health and management, you will want to start with dry yeast or learn all about starters.

have fun! it's only beer.

How do you keep the temps in the low 60's (right now I'm interested in ale's)?  I have a closet that probably gets that cold in the winter, but in the summer that would be hard without some kind of refrigeration.

you got it. I have an old fridge and an external temp controller. some folks make great beer with a big tub of water with ice packs to control the temps or a bodged together evaporative cooler with the fermenter in a shallow tub of water and a cotton cloth draped over it. a fan can be used to increase the efficiency.

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S. cerevisiae

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2014, 09:38:16 am »
I have dealt with complexity all of my adult life.  Trust me and the other forum members who have chimed in on this thread, there's more to brewing than making extract.  Most of the longtime brewers on this forum started out brewing kit and/or extract beer.   Learning how to mash is easy compared to mastering brewery hygiene and yeast management. Brewery hygiene and yeast management are more critical to making good beer than the source of one's extract.  Fermentation is little more than controlled spoilage.


S. cerevisiae

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2014, 10:08:40 am »
Or it's a way to develop the flavors you want in your own beer.  Please don't tell me how to brew when I've done enough experimentation to know what I like.  But fell free to brew any way you want to, and I promise I won't tell you it's wrong.

I was merely pointing out the fact that it is not necessary to ferment ale in the low 60s in order to produce off-flavor free beer.  I have brewed several hundred batches of ale without the aid of forced attemperation (I do use forced attemperation with lager).  Granted, I have always been fortunate enough to have a space in my home that rarely exceeds 70F.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 12:24:55 pm by S. cerevisiae »

Offline tommymorris

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2014, 10:11:12 am »


http://www.homebrewing.org/Grains-by-the-Bag-_c_197.html  (Is this a good deal, or can I do better?)

You traded at CBOE and want us to tell you if it's a good deal?  ;D

I applaud the determination to jump in the deep end but you may want to spend a few more weeks reading and asking questions before you start buying bulk sacks.

I traded at the Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT).  The Chicago Board Options Exchange (CBOE) is across the street...but you can take the catwalk if you're a member.

Ok, I'll brew from a kit for my first foray.  But I still have a few questions.

When I asked if it was a good deal, I meant in relation to what WG brewers usually pay.  CBOT wheat is trading around $6 a bushel, which brings up my other question.  At $70 for 55 pounds delivered for say, wheat, that is crazy expensive.  At that price, a bushel (60 pounds, I believe) would trade at $60.  So why is beer grain so expensive?

The buyers and sellers on the CBOT trade in bulk. You probably can't buy just one bushel.

As someone mentioned malting and delivery add cost. The relative low quantity homebrewers use also adds cost.  I am sure Bud can get much cheaper malt in bulk.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2014, 10:28:06 am »
I would find out if I enjoyed fishing before I bought the lake. I would follow Denny's advice, learn everything along the way.

Offline denny

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2014, 10:30:50 am »
I was merely pointing out the fact that is not necessary to ferment ale in the low 60s in order to produce off-flavor free beer.  I have brewed several hundred batches of ale without the aid of forced attemperation (I do use forced attemperation with lager).  Granted, I have always been fortunate enough to have a space in my home that rarely exceeds 70F.

And I was merely pointing out that through trial every homebrewer can discover what fermentation process they prefer.  My beers have improved immensely since I have been able to maintain a constant 63 F (for ales) fermentation temp.  Obviously, that's gonna depend on the yeast I use, the beer style and my own taste preferences.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2014, 10:40:28 am »

And I was merely pointing out that through trial every homebrewer can discover what fermentation process they prefer.  My beers have improved immensely since I have been able to maintain a constant 63 F (for ales) fermentation temp.  Obviously, that's gonna depend on the yeast I use, the beer style and my own taste preferences.

^^ THIS ^^
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2014, 10:47:16 am »
It seems like temp should be ester profile driven. I can't imagine brewing a saison and saying to myself "dang it, I forgot to sanitize my fermentor. Oh well, I'll just set the controler at 45ยบ".  Or brewing a german pils and saying "wow, that bucket is really clean. I'll just set the temp at 90".

I think its totally true that its not necessary to ferment ales at 60-65. One might want to think about why its not necessary though.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2014, 11:47:06 am »
To the OP - also realize that with the kit you order you will want your grains crushed - otherwise you may get whole malted grains that you will need to crush or "mill".  Good luck and let us know how it goes.  Keep things relatively cool for the fermentation by using a laundry tub with cool water and frozen water bottles or check out the term "swamp cooler" and consider a cotton towel and fan for evaporative cooling.

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Offline Bill Wallace

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Re: Newbie Malt Question
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2014, 12:09:07 pm »
To the OP - also realize that with the kit you order you will want your grains crushed - otherwise you may get whole malted grains that you will need to crush or "mill".  Good luck and let us know how it goes.  Keep things relatively cool for the fermentation by using a laundry tub with cool water and frozen water bottles or check out the term "swamp cooler" and consider a cotton towel and fan for evaporative cooling.

It's not rocket science - but it can be science.

I have a grain mill and it will mill from coarse to fine.  It might work.  I know I don't want it too fine.  Hopefully the coarse will be coarse enough.  Thanks for the advice, though.