[denny]

So, v2 hit all the numbers dead on and is fermenting away happily.  Nice to know that I can exactly duplicate a recipe when I have to.

As to the balance discussion...in tasting v1 and getting some friends opinions on it, I've started rethinking the hopping.  I had hoped that by using Chinook at 20 min. (the equivalent of bittering hops for this beer) would give it just a bit of bite, but that doesn't seem to be happening.  Also, the hop flavor and aroma, while present, isn't as prominent as I hoped it would be.  The toastiness of the Special Roast comes through nicely, but there isn't a lot of malt presence beyond that.  Overall, while the beer is more drinkable than I thought it would be, there isn't a whole lot of "there" there.  I hope that this latest version takes care of the malt, although I'm not certain the combo of Munich and Special Roast is gonna be what I'm looking for.  I think in the next version I'll play with the hopping.  Although I may not do a traditional 60 min, addition, I will move the "bittering" hops to earlier in the boil.

[erockrph]

If the hop bitterness and flavor/aroma are both below what you were targeting, then I'd leave the timing of the addition the same and simply use more. Seems like the best way to kill two birds with one stone.

[denny]

If the hop bitterness and flavor/aroma are both below what you were targeting, then I'd leave the timing of the addition the same and simply use more. Seems like the best way to kill two birds with one stone.

Thanks...I'll consider that.  I think maybe it makes more sense, especially for these test batches.

[yso191]

I'm curious about your mash pH.  What was your target?

[denny]

I'm curious about your mash pH.  What was your target?

5.5.  I was dead on.

[klickitat jim]

balance is a characteristic. it needs specifics to be useful. Levels and kinds. there is a sweetness/bitterness balance, a grain/hop/yeast balance, a spice/fruit/beer balance...

so don't say "this beer has good balance" because I agree with erock on that being as meaningless as "This beer has good color" it's fine as far as it goes but it doesn't really tell us anything about the beer, only about the speakers impression of the beer.

"This beer has a strong bready malt character balanced by a firm bitterness that prevents it from being cloying" is useful and descriptive of the balance (kind and level) of that beer.

Fully agree. But when someone describes a beer as Balanced, and leaves out any qualifiers, then I must assume that everything is in balance.

[pete b]

Denny, I've been following this thread and reading the last several posts made me go back to the original to refresh my memory about what the, original purpose was. That leaves me with a few questions. Why not add the first hops sooner but at a low dose or with a really clean hop? Mouth feel/ maltiness seemed a high priority. Would a little six row and a bit of oatmeal help. A local brewery, Element, makes an oatmeal pilsner that is a bit of a revelation to me. Also, just wondering what the no sparge is giving you here.

[kmccaf]

Denny, I've been following this thread and reading the last several posts made me go back to the original to refresh my memory about what the, original purpose was. That leaves me with a few questions. Why not add the first hops sooner but at a low dose or with a really clean hop? Mouth feel/ maltiness seemed a high priority. Would a little six row and a bit of oatmeal help. A local brewery, Element, makes an oatmeal pilsner that is a bit of a revelation to me. Also, just wondering what the no sparge is giving you here.

This is exactly what I was thinking! I will try my hand at making an American Mild. I am thinking 6-row for the base with a lot of flaked rye, and maybe a lb of Munich. Hopping just as Pete describes. Sounds like a fun challenge.

[pepperford]

I brew mostly session beers and I think you have hit the wall all session beers encounter "not a lot there, there". English base malt has more character than US 2 row, Vienna or Munich helps, aromatic (brown malt) as a light crystal works, a mix of caramel malts adds body and flavor, oats are a good addition I think. But in the end, the low abv makes for light body beer. The beer with the most body for the gravity in your desired range is milk-oatmeal stout. So maybe try a little lactose in addition to oats. I know it sounds stupid, but the bitterness and hop flavor may enough of a counter point.

[klickitat jim]

I have the ideal name for mine. Junior Brown

[denny]

Y know, I can't imagine why 6 row would add mouthfeel.  Maybe someone can explain it to me.

I think the next version will include 60 min. hops as well as dry hopping.  I realized I was still using British mild too much as a model.  I want some of the characteristics, but a decidedly American character.

[klickitat jim]

I think the next version will include 60 min. hops as well as dry hopping.  I realized I was still using British mild too much as a model.  I want some of the characteristics, but a decidedly American character.

Agreed. I like the American Mild title but probably a better description of what I'll be trying to make would be a small AAA/ABA, but keeping the hops down to be inline with the lower ABV.

[pete b]

Y know, I can't imagine why 6 row would add mouthfeel.  Maybe someone can explain it to me.

I think the next version will include 60 min. hops as well as dry hopping.  I realized I was still using British mild too much as a model.  I want some of the characteristics, but a decidedly American character.

I should have actually phrased that in the form of a question
. I have heard that 6 Row does not provide as much fermentable sugar as 2 row. Does that mean there is left behind unfermentable starches and some mouthfeel? That whole post was more questions for my benefit than suggestions for your recipe.

[hopfenundmalz]

Y know, I can't imagine why 6 row would add mouthfeel.  Maybe someone can explain it to me.

I think the next version will include 60 min. hops as well as dry hopping.  I realized I was still using British mild too much as a model.  I want some of the characteristics, but a decidedly American character.

I should have actually phrased that in the form of a question
. I have heard that 6 Row does not provide as much fermentable sugar as 2 row. Does that mean there is left behind unfermentable starches and some mouthfeel? That whole post was more questions for my benefit than suggestions for your recipe.

Per pound 6 row has much more husk material, so there is less starch per pound to convert to sugar.

[kmccaf]

Y know, I can't imagine why 6 row would add mouthfeel.  Maybe someone can explain it to me.

I think the next version will include 60 min. hops as well as dry hopping.  I realized I was still using British mild too much as a model.  I want some of the characteristics, but a decidedly American character.

I was thinking more on the flavor aspect. Since 2 row tastes very neutral to me, and 6 row has a robust grainy flavor in addition to being a very american ingredient. I still think you need flaked rye to add mouthfeel.