Author Topic: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style  (Read 5512 times)

S. cerevisiae

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Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« on: August 29, 2014, 10:25:32 PM »
Has anyone bothered to read the winning recipes that were published in the September/October issue of Zymurgy?  The recipe for the winning English Pale Ale is out of style for category 8C. 

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2014, 10:31:49 PM »
I have observed that many of the gold medal recipes (year after year) are out of style.  It really depends not so much about the numbers (of which the judges don't know about, i.e. OG, FG, IBU's, etc) but rather on taste.  I consistently see many beers with much higher FG's than the style suggests (i.e. mild, 60 schilling scottish).  Just goes to show that tastebuds truly can pick out the gold medal beers from the others. 

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2014, 10:54:33 PM »
they are after all just guidelines. it if looks like a gold medal pale ale and it tastes like a gold medal pale ale and enough judges agree it's THE gold medal pale ale then it's THE gold medal pale ale.

It obviously wasn't out of style on aroma, appearance, flavor, mouthfeel, and overall impression.
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S. cerevisiae

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2014, 11:45:43 PM »
I see that the winner entered the beer as an 8B Special Bitter, not an 8C Strong Bitter, which is the category in which it should have been entered based on the recipe's original gravity.  The recipe is still out of style for 8B. With an O.G. that exceeds the style guidelines by 5 gravity points and a grist that contains 21% crystal malt, that beer had to be bigger than every other beer in the flight.  Exceeding the upper gravity limit by 5 points is pushing it in my book (some would call it cheating). 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 05:52:17 PM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2014, 12:05:43 AM »
they are after all just guidelines. it if looks like a gold medal pale ale and it tastes like a gold medal pale ale and enough judges agree it's THE gold medal pale ale then it's THE gold medal pale ale.

It obviously wasn't out of style on aroma, appearance, flavor, mouthfeel, and overall impression.

+1
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Offline goobersan

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2014, 12:13:16 AM »
well I feel a little better with my stout that had a higher OG. Hope I win
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2014, 12:21:48 AM »
I see that the winner entered the beer as an 8B Special Bitter, not an 8C Strong Bitter, which is the category in which it should have been entered based on the recipe's original gravity.  The recipe is still out of style for 8B. With that O.G. that exceeds the style guidelines by 5 gravity points and a grist that contains 21% crystal malt, that beer had to be bigger than every other beer in the flight.  Exceeding the upper gravity limit by 5 points is pushing it in my book (some would call it cheating).

riiiiiight.  because only one person in the category made a beer at the top/above the top of the style.  ;D

...check out previous years' winning recipes.  It's not a new thing.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2014, 12:24:09 AM »
Yes, it of was entered in the wrong subcategory/. It was judged with all of the category 8 beers, and it would not be a stretch to say that there were 8Cs on the mini-BoS for cat. 8. So it went up against ESB type beers there and won. Maybe there were even stronger beers on the mini-Bos table. It won.

There were some others that had me raise an eyebrow due to ingredienst or procedure, but they won.

Every year, same procedure.
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2014, 01:06:17 AM »
It's definitely not cheating.

Offline Stevie

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2014, 01:15:11 AM »
Congrats to the winner. I bet it was an awesome beer.

Offline tommymorris

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2014, 02:45:11 AM »

Congrats to the winner. I bet it was an awesome beer.
+1

Offline macbrews

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2014, 02:54:19 AM »
Some of the best advice I have gotten from the sensei brewers in my club is that it isn't what you tried to brew, its what it tastes like when it is done. 

Offline braufessor

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2014, 04:02:20 AM »
A quick glance shows:
*The winning mild was 10 gravity points above the guidelines.
*The overall BOS scottish 60 was 12 points above the guidelines.  Probably outside the IBU guideline too by the looks of it

Is there a particular reason that it matters that category 8 was "out of style?"

I bet the majority of the medaling beers were "out of style" in one way or another - if not gravity, then IBU's or SRM, or they type of hops or grain used..... Do you really think American Pale Ales or American Ambers or American IPA's, brewed "to style" win?  They don't.  You better exceed the IBU guidelines by a solid amt if you want to place with those beers the vast majority of the time.

I noticed it as well.... just not sure why category 8 is a big deal and the others aren't.  Beers at the top end or a bit beyond do better on a regular basis.  Anyone who enters a lot of comps notices that after a while.  I think very, very, very few people would call it "cheating."  I sure don't think it is.


Offline guido

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2014, 10:47:38 AM »
I thought the rule of thumb is that judges (usually) like the beer better if it's brewed at the higher end of the style's range.
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Offline leejoreilly

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Re: Category 8 NHC Winner was out of style
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2014, 02:10:20 PM »
Judges don't evaluate recipes; they evaluate beer...