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Author Topic: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin  (Read 6116 times)

Offline jweiss206

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2014, 12:42:09 pm »


Since you are using 12 lb of six row, I would boil for 90 min.  If IIRC, 6 row usually has more of the DMS precursor SMM.  A 90 minute boil would drive off more and lower the risk of developing DMS in the finished beer.
[/quote]

Good point, the only true lager I ever brewed used 6-row and it was a creamed corn disaster.

Offline jweiss206

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2014, 12:45:16 pm »
jweiss206, if you're using the 6 row for diastatic power it's not necessary.

I didn't actually consider that. I merely observed a number of pumpkin beer recipes using 6-Row (Charlie Papazian and Ray Spangler), so I just mimic'ed the same.

Offline denny

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2014, 01:26:05 pm »
jweiss206, if you're using the 6 row for diastatic power it's not necessary.

I didn't actually consider that. I merely observed a number of pumpkin beer recipes using 6-Row (Charlie Papazian and Ray Spangler), so I just mimic'ed the same.

Yeah, I think those recipes are either leftovers or misunderstanding about the diastatic power of 2 row.  Although it wasn't always true, these days 2 row has pretty much the same diastatic power as 6 row.  At least enough that you don't need to worry about using 6 row to get adjunct conversion.
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Offline dcb

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2014, 01:54:28 pm »
Most of what's below is just me thinking out loud.  But thinking about beer is a worthwhile pleasure, so here goes:

I've been thinking about brewing a pumpkin beer and going over what seems to me to be conflicting information in my head.

Above, it is suggested to include a 30 minute protein rest when including the pumpkin in the mash.  But in Palmer's book, he says that doing a protein rest with malts that are already well modified can rob the beer of body and render it thin (1st paragraph, http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-4.html).  So,  I'm picturing doing a sort of split mash, with the pumpkin and a few pounds of the malt for 30 minutes at 125F followed by 60 minutes at 154F, mashing the rest of the grains for 60 min. at 154F in parallel, and then combining the runoffs. 

From what I've read, though, it's clear that thin body isn't really vexing anyone, either because the protein rest isn't really that harmful, or the pumpkin puts back in some of the body, or some other reason I haven't thought of.  Equally clear to me is that this scheme is likely to triple the amount of work for zero or nearly-zero benefit.  It would be a fun experiment, but never having done it the conventional way, I'd have no basis for comparison and wouldn't know whether I had learned anything.

But it also made me wonder whether there are other scenarios where a mash is split up somehow where there really would be a reason to do so.  I know some people cold steep dark grains (and others argue that if the pH is correct it's unnecessary), which is a similar idea.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2014, 02:24:10 pm »
Most of what's below is just me thinking out loud.  But thinking about beer is a worthwhile pleasure, so here goes:

I've been thinking about brewing a pumpkin beer and going over what seems to me to be conflicting information in my head.

Above, it is suggested to include a 30 minute protein rest when including the pumpkin in the mash.  But in Palmer's book, he says that doing a protein rest with malts that are already well modified can rob the beer of body and render it thin (1st paragraph, http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-4.html).  So,  I'm picturing doing a sort of split mash, with the pumpkin and a few pounds of the malt for 30 minutes at 125F followed by 60 minutes at 154F, mashing the rest of the grains for 60 min. at 154F in parallel, and then combining the runoffs. 

From what I've read, though, it's clear that thin body isn't really vexing anyone, either because the protein rest isn't really that harmful, or the pumpkin puts back in some of the body, or some other reason I haven't thought of.  Equally clear to me is that this scheme is likely to triple the amount of work for zero or nearly-zero benefit.  It would be a fun experiment, but never having done it the conventional way, I'd have no basis for comparison and wouldn't know whether I had learned anything.

But it also made me wonder whether there are other scenarios where a mash is split up somehow where there really would be a reason to do so.  I know some people cold steep dark grains (and others argue that if the pH is correct it's unnecessary), which is a similar idea.

there is a cereal mash. I recently did this for the first time on a CAP. about 1 lb of pils malt was milled and mixed with ~3 lbs of polenta in water. I brought it up to mash temp (~154) and held there for ~20 minutes. the idea being to reduce the viscosity of the whole mass before bringing it up to a boil to gelatenize the starches and adding the whole mass back into the main mash.

At that point the 'mash' portion of the exercise is intended to break down proteins and some soluble starches from the maize so that it's easier to boil and gelatenize the starches with the boil portion.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2014, 04:24:55 pm »
do you really only get 1 ppg from pumpkin?

I would expect a yield similar to other starchy adjuncts, more like 40. which would bump your OG another ~25 points or more.


I hadn't thought to consider brewtoads accuracy. Anyone have an idea on the gravity points that 4 pounds of pumpkin would yield?

I typically use about 5# or roasted pumpkin in my pumpkin beers and have NEVER really noticed any significant contribution in terms of gravity points from the pumpkin.  I still don't know why that is.  I just don't consider any gravity addition from the pumpkin anymore when formulating my grain bill and OG. 

Offline kmccaf

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2014, 07:22:27 am »
jweiss206, if you're using the 6 row for diastatic power it's not necessary.

I didn't actually consider that. I merely observed a number of pumpkin beer recipes using 6-Row (Charlie Papazian and Ray Spangler), so I just mimic'ed the same.

Yeah, I think those recipes are either leftovers or misunderstanding about the diastatic power of 2 row.  Although it wasn't always true, these days 2 row has pretty much the same diastatic power as 6 row.  At least enough that you don't need to worry about using 6 row to get adjunct conversion.

In a zymurgy article last year about pumpkin beers, the author stated that he preferred the taste of 6 row in pumpkin brews.
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Offline tress

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2014, 06:04:12 am »
I just brewed my pumpkin ale on 9/1/14 (not my first, though) and it was a PITA despite adding in over a pound of rice hulls.  I had added in 87 oz of canned 100% pumpkin puree (it was baked at 350F along with 1/2 lb of dark brown sugar for 1 hour) and did a 30 minute protein rest at 122C and then a sacchrification rest for 60 minutes...all, from what I've read, to add about 5 points of SG (my OG was 1.064).  Future batch will now no longer have as much puree because IMO, it isn't worth the stuck sparges (I'm a batch sparger) for a little mouthfeel.

On a side note, it has been 10 days in the primary at ~68F and there is still a significant amount of active fermentation going on.  Never had one as active for so long before.
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Offline jweiss206

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2014, 11:35:41 am »
I just brewed my pumpkin ale on 9/1/14 (not my first, though) and it was a PITA despite adding in over a pound of rice hulls.  I had added in 87 oz of canned 100% pumpkin puree (it was baked at 350F along with 1/2 lb of dark brown sugar for 1 hour) and did a 30 minute protein rest at 122C and then a sacchrification rest for 60 minutes...all, from what I've read, to add about 5 points of SG (my OG was 1.064).  Future batch will now no longer have as much puree because IMO, it isn't worth the stuck sparges (I'm a batch sparger) for a little mouthfeel.

On a side note, it has been 10 days in the primary at ~68F and there is still a significant amount of active fermentation going on.  Never had one as active for so long before.

This beer was chosen by my brother as an introduction to brewing. It's the first time he's ever assisted me before, so I ultimately decided to keep it a bit simpler. I mashed for 90 at 154 rather than introduce a protein rest. I also dumped the 6-row in favor of 2-row and used a 60 minute boil. We brewed on 9/6 and most of my fermentation appears to be complete. I had to ferment at 72 though. I just couldn't get the temp to hold any lower than that (curse of Summer), it's down to 68 now at least. Should still come out tasty.

Thanks for all the advice in this thread all.

Offline leejoreilly

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2014, 09:02:45 am »
Just to be contrary, why bother to mash the pumpkin at all? I just brewed a Pumpkin Saison yesterday using a 15 oz can of pumpkin puree and 2 15 oz cans of pumpkin pie mix, roasted (actually probably more sauteed on a stove top than roasted) for about a half hour or so to develop some color, then added to the boil with about 15 minutes left. I wasn't looking for the pumpkin to add any sugars (the base saison recipe has plenty, plus I tossed in some maple syrup, too), just some flavor (mostly from the pie mix spices) and color. It was certainly simpler, and I don't see a downside, except maybe the enjoyment of adding an interesting step to the mash process.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2014, 10:45:57 am »
Just to be contrary, why bother to mash the pumpkin at all? I just brewed a Pumpkin Saison yesterday using a 15 oz can of pumpkin puree and 2 15 oz cans of pumpkin pie mix, roasted (actually probably more sauteed on a stove top than roasted) for about a half hour or so to develop some color, then added to the boil with about 15 minutes left. I wasn't looking for the pumpkin to add any sugars (the base saison recipe has plenty, plus I tossed in some maple syrup, too), just some flavor (mostly from the pie mix spices) and color. It was certainly simpler, and I don't see a downside, except maybe the enjoyment of adding an interesting step to the mash process.
Pumpkin does contain a fair amount of starch, so that could lead to haze issues if it's not mashed. Pumpkin also contains pectin, so that could set into a pectin haze if boiled. Clarity issues aside, if you're happy with the results of using pumpkin in the boil, then I don't see much else of an issue.
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Offline leejoreilly

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2014, 07:29:57 am »
Just to be contrary, why bother to mash the pumpkin at all? I just brewed a Pumpkin Saison yesterday using a 15 oz can of pumpkin puree and 2 15 oz cans of pumpkin pie mix, roasted (actually probably more sauteed on a stove top than roasted) for about a half hour or so to develop some color, then added to the boil with about 15 minutes left. I wasn't looking for the pumpkin to add any sugars (the base saison recipe has plenty, plus I tossed in some maple syrup, too), just some flavor (mostly from the pie mix spices) and color. It was certainly simpler, and I don't see a downside, except maybe the enjoyment of adding an interesting step to the mash process.
Pumpkin does contain a fair amount of starch, so that could lead to haze issues if it's not mashed. Pumpkin also contains pectin, so that could set into a pectin haze if boiled. Clarity issues aside, if you're happy with the results of using pumpkin in the boil, then I don't see much else of an issue.

Good point about the possibility of haze, Eric - I hadn't considered that. Not a big deal for me, but a valid point.

Offline tress

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2014, 08:07:04 pm »
Pumpkin does contain a fair amount of starch, so that could lead to haze issues if it's not mashed.

That is exactly why I mash the pumpkin puree.  I also didn't want it to make the trub more significant.
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Offline factory

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Re: Mashing Question Using Canned Pumpkin
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2014, 07:04:11 am »
Just to be contrary, why bother to mash the pumpkin at all? I just brewed a Pumpkin Saison yesterday using a 15 oz can of pumpkin puree and 2 15 oz cans of pumpkin pie mix, roasted (actually probably more sauteed on a stove top than roasted) for about a half hour or so to develop some color, then added to the boil with about 15 minutes left. I wasn't looking for the pumpkin to add any sugars (the base saison recipe has plenty, plus I tossed in some maple syrup, too), just some flavor (mostly from the pie mix spices) and color. It was certainly simpler, and I don't see a downside, except maybe the enjoyment of adding an interesting step to the mash process.
Pumpkin does contain a fair amount of starch, so that could lead to haze issues if it's not mashed. Pumpkin also contains pectin, so that could set into a pectin haze if boiled. Clarity issues aside, if you're happy with the results of using pumpkin in the boil, then I don't see much else of an issue.
+1 with respect to haze.  The firs time I made pumpkin ale about 3 years ago, I just added it to the boil and it turned out very hazy. Last 2 times, I mashed the Pumpkin (RIMS system), and the beers have turned out crystal clear.