[S. cerevisiae]

I usually think Cherrios when I smell or taste Pils or Vienna malt.   However, I judged a lighter-colored Octoberfest over the weekend that tasted like graham crackers and nuts.  I described the flavor as "medium rich graham cracker-like maltiness with a nutty note," but I still believe that I could have improved upon that description.  This beer was clearly made with Vienna malt, but there was something else in the grist or the process that left a touch of non-caramel malt-based malty sweetness. The sweetness was different than Pils malt sweetness. Does anyone here brew Vienna-style beer?  When it comes to lagers, I have basically stuck with Pre-Pro Pils, Bo Pils, and Dortmunder Export.

[erockrph]

I don't know if I'd call it graham crackery on its own, but a lot of 'fests call for a bit of CaraMunich. In low amounts I get more of a biscuity malt flavor rather than the typical crystal malt flavors. I use about 1/4 lb in a 3-gallon batch of Märzen and I find it just accentuates the malt a bit at that low level.

[klickitat jim]

I think it's a fine description if that is what you tasted that is what it was. I battled with wanting to have beer geeky sounding descriptions but have settled on just writing what it is. Its about the beer not my vocabulary. One minor tweak might be a comma between medium and rich. Medium rich isn't really a level, but... medium, rich graham cracker is

[morticaixavier]

could have been some munich. that has a sweetness to it that is very different than crystal malt but still gives a bready/graham like character.

[kylekohlmorgen]

I get a hefty amount of bread crust and graham cracker aroma/flavor from the Best Munich 10L. Really nice malt.

The BCS recipe calls for Pils base with smaller amounts of Munich 10L and Vienna (maybe a touch of Caramunich?), which (IMO) strikes a good balance of mid-range (nutty, graham) and light (saltine, cheerios) malt flavors.

I'd rather use more Munich and no CaraMunich. So many domestic versions are overly rich/sweet (ala Sam Adams). Did you find that during judging?

[HoosierBrew]

could have been some munich. that has a sweetness to it that is very different than crystal malt but still gives a bready/graham like character.

+1


EDIT  -  +1 also to too many versions being too crystally/caramelly sweet.

[morticaixavier]

Also, Good on'ya for judging more. I think your knowledge and skill will be an asset to the BJCP.

[S. cerevisiae]

I don't know if I'd call it graham crackery on its own, but a lot of 'fests call for a bit of CaraMunich.

A true to style Octoberfest is not supposed to have caramel malt in its grist.

[dmtaylor]

Edited.

Graham crackeriness sounds a lot like Vienna and Pilsner malt.  Pilsner malt, to me, tastes like honey grahams.  Vienna helps take it to another level.

I get nuttiness from English Maris Otter malt, especially if you toast it for a little while in a 350 F oven.  It might sound crazy, but I see no reason why if you wanted nuttiness that you couldn't use some percentage (maybe 10%?) Maris Otter, toasted or not, in an Oktoberfest style beer.  Or you could try toasting your own German malts to see if it does the same thing.

I'd recommend a good percentage (20-30%) pilsner malt in any Oktoberfest, to make it taste more "German" and preserve some honey-like sweetness.  The remainder should be Vienna and Munich, except perhaps as discussed above.  My humble opinions.

[erockrph]

I don't know if I'd call it graham crackery on its own, but a lot of 'fests call for a bit of CaraMunich.

A true to style Octoberfest is not supposed to have caramel malt in its grist.

If you define "true to style" as "historically accurate recipe" then sure. For me, it's all about the finished product. My recipe is based on Brewing Classic Styles, and I'm pretty happy with it. Thankfully we're not all required to brew the exact same recipes

[denny]

I don't know if I'd call it graham crackery on its own, but a lot of 'fests call for a bit of CaraMunich.

A true to style Octoberfest is not supposed to have caramel malt in its grist.

If you define "true to style" as "historically accurate recipe" then sure. For me, it's all about the finished product. My recipe is based on Brewing Classic Styles, and I'm pretty happy with it. Thankfully we're not all required to brew the exact same recipes

I made the BCS recipe recently and spaced on using the caramunich it calls for.  IMO, it doesn't need it anyway.  It's great and very authentic without it.

[klickitat jim]

I don't know if I'd call it graham crackery on its own, but a lot of 'fests call for a bit of CaraMunich.

A true to style Octoberfest is not supposed to have caramel malt in its grist.

If you define "true to style" as "historically accurate recipe" then sure. For me, it's all about the finished product. My recipe is based on Brewing Classic Styles, and I'm pretty happy with it. Thankfully we're not all required to brew the exact same recipes

Oh you didn't get the memo? Uh, yaaaa, we're gonna need you to, kinda, stop brewing your own recipes and, ya... stick to what the book says. Mmm kay? Thanks

[HoosierBrew]

Oh you didn't get the memo? Uh, yaaaa, we're gonna need you to, kinda, stop brewing your own recipes and, ya... stick to what the book says. Mmm kay? Thanks

Movie makes me grin every time.       

[erockrph]

Oh you didn't get the memo? Uh, yaaaa, we're gonna need you to, kinda, stop brewing your own recipes and, ya... stick to what the book says. Mmm kay? Thanks

Crap, I better write to Gordon before they finalize the new guidelines...

[S. cerevisiae]

I made the BCS recipe recently and spaced on using the caramunich it calls for.  IMO, it doesn't need it anyway.  It's great and very authentic without it.

Exactly!  I rarely use caramel malt darker than CaraPils these days, and when I do, I do so sparingly.  I have taken to using 1/2 to 1% pale chocolate malt to color my bitters.  At that proportion, pale chocolate malt adds complexity and color without adding roastiness.