Author Topic: higher alpha subs for noble hops  (Read 1331 times)

Offline goschman

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higher alpha subs for noble hops
« on: September 17, 2014, 03:46:02 PM »
I admittedly have little experience with non-American hops other than magnum, northern brewer, perle, EKG. I brew some close to authentic styles but nothing spot on. I am on a reasonably tight brewing budget so spending more on imported hops with really low AA% is hard for me to justify when I can use half as much of a more affordable hop that I like and works for my purposes. I will say that I understand the quality of ingredients as well as their appropriate use is very important when making authentic styles. This is a sacrifice I am willing to take to a certain extent.

For example, I just kegged a 'moktoberfest' brewed with Magnum and N Brewer hops instead of noble hops. I think this will be fine for my novice palate especially for a malty style like this...

To my question, are there any recommendations for hops with higher alpha ratings that are 'similar' to some noble hops varieties? Something like Northern Brewer, Perle, etc. I realize that to get a noble hop character you need to use noble hops. I am curious what others think and assume that none really fit the bill. I understand that some American examples have been compared to noble varieties but those seem to have very low AA% as well.
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Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2014, 04:50:52 PM »
Hops and the substitution, Which they may have in the parentage.

Santium is slightly higher than Tettnanger.
https://www.hopunion.com/santiam/

Sterling is much higher than Saaz.
https://www.hopunion.com/sterling/

Vangaurd is a little higher than Hallertau.
https://www.hopunion.com/vanguard/

I have used all of these, and they work reasonably well. For my competition German style beers I will use German hops for the flavor and aroma to have the appropriate flavor and aroma.

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Offline denny

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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 05:07:30 PM »
FWIW, start looking for subs for Northern Brewer.  Most hop growers will no longer be growing it due to low yield.
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Offline goschman

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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2014, 05:16:01 PM »
FWIW, start looking for subs for Northern Brewer.  Most hop growers will no longer be growing it due to low yield.

Good to know. I used to brew with it a lot and just started again. I use it mostly in malty or dark styles so it shouldn't be too hard to find something else.

Got any news for me on Palisade?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 05:20:39 PM by goschman »
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Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2014, 05:25:15 PM »
FWIW, start looking for subs for Northern Brewer.  Most hop growers will no longer be growing it due to low yield.

So what are we going to do for California Commons in competitions? Joking.

More like what will Anchor Brewing do?

Perle was bred from NB, and has some similarities.
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Online HoosierBrew

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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2014, 05:27:50 PM »


Perle was bred from NB, and has some similarities.

Perle was the closest sub I could think of. I used to use it a fair amount, still do on occasion.
Jon H.

Offline denny

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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2014, 05:56:05 PM »
No news on Palisades.

One cool thing about getting to go to the commercial session of Hop and Brew School was roundtable discussions with the growers.  They were unanimous about getting rid of Norther Brewer.  You should have heard the commercial brewers whine!  "You're limiting our selection!"  One hop farmer pointed out that she had 65 varieties of hops on her farm...doesn't sound limiting to me!  And of course none of the brewers are in business to lose money, even though they seemed to be suggesting that the farmers should do so!
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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2014, 09:55:47 PM »
Dang.  I have a shopping list laying beside me with Northern Brewer on it.  As I look through my recipes I seem to use it quite a bit.  I really hate to see it going out of favor.  On well, I'm sure I'll find a replacement.

Suppose the farmers can be convinced to sell the rhizomes they are going to throw away?   ;D

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Offline mabrungard

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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2014, 10:10:08 PM »
Good thing I grow my own NB!
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Offline erockrph

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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2014, 01:42:55 AM »
Sterling typically runs in the 7% or so range. I see Ultra listed as 3-5% in many of the manuals, but I've been getting it in the 7-9% range. Both of these are very nice noble-hop derivatives that I use in the majority of the continental styles I brew.

Sterling also gets a bit of a lemonade character on top of the typical herbal/spicy noble notes when you push it to larger amounts of late hops. It makes a really nice accent note in APA/IPA's if you're looking to set a beer apart from the typical dank/pine/citrus thing. Sterling has been one of my favorite new additions to my hop tooklit over the past few years.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2014, 01:59:03 AM »

Dang.  I have a shopping list laying beside me with Northern Brewer on it.  As I look through my recipes I seem to use it quite a bit.  I really hate to see it going out of favor.  On well, I'm sure I'll find a replacement.

Suppose the farmers can be convinced to sell the rhizomes they are going to throw away?   ;D

Paul

You still Could get German Northern Brewer hop.
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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2014, 12:48:37 PM »
Sterling typically runs in the 7% or so range. I see Ultra listed as 3-5% in many of the manuals, but I've been getting it in the 7-9% range. Both of these are very nice noble-hop derivatives that I use in the majority of the continental styles I brew.

Sterling also gets a bit of a lemonade character on top of the typical herbal/spicy noble notes when you push it to larger amounts of late hops. It makes a really nice accent note in APA/IPA's if you're looking to set a beer apart from the typical dank/pine/citrus thing. Sterling has been one of my favorite new additions to my hop tooklit over the past few years.

Yep, nice hop.
Jon H.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2014, 01:45:20 PM »
My first thought is to look at picking one noble variety and buy a whole pound. That may make it cheaper (depending on your shipping costs or whether you can buy in bulk locally at a LHBS) than even what you pay for high alpha hops. There are also US-grown versions of the noble hops which sell for still less than both imports and high alpha hops.

Sterling or Ultra might be your best option to find high(ish) alpha and noble character if you can find the 6-8% AAU Ultra crop.
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Offline goschman

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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2014, 03:08:49 PM »
My first thought is to look at picking one noble variety and buy a whole pound. That may make it cheaper (depending on your shipping costs or whether you can buy in bulk locally at a LHBS) than even what you pay for high alpha hops. There are also US-grown versions of the noble hops which sell for still less than both imports and high alpha hops.

Sterling or Ultra might be your best option to find high(ish) alpha and noble character if you can find the 6-8% AAU Ultra crop.

Thanks. This seems like a good thought. I actually have used sterling on one occasion for a hoppy pilsner that I collaborated on and liked them. Time to find another online hops supplier because my normal one has a pretty limited selection.
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Re: higher alpha subs for noble hops
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2014, 03:22:15 PM »
Yakimavalleyhops.com is excellent, among others
Jon H.