Author Topic: hop utilization  (Read 683 times)

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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hop utilization
« on: September 24, 2014, 05:00:54 PM »
got to thinking this weekend after drinking new belgium tour de fall pale ale :o

their website lists it as 38 IBU beer, and it really has a strong hop taste to me. i brew a pale ale that beersmith calculates at 45 IBU and mine is nowhere near as hop strong as new belgiums - so began the thinking....

im using pellet hops 1oz centennial at 50min, 1oz cascade at 20 minutes, and .5 oz citra at 10 min. my mash ph is about 5.35-5.40, and my salt additions match the amber balanced profile. im assuming i have less than optimal hop utilization after drinking a comparable commercial IBU beer - whats my most practical path to figuring this out?
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: hop utilization
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2014, 05:03:35 PM »
don't get confused between IBU and hop flavor/aroma. they are not the same things. you can have a low IBU beer with TONS of hop flavor by using late additions, FWH, etc. Add to that the way that aromas trick our brains into getting more flavor out of something and a heavily dry hopped beer (which adds 0 IBU) will TASTE much hoppier because it smells much hoppier.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: hop utilization
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2014, 05:07:28 PM »
don't get confused between IBU and hop flavor/aroma. they are not the same things. you can have a low IBU beer with TONS of hop flavor by using late additions, FWH, etc. Add to that the way that aromas trick our brains into getting more flavor out of something and a heavily dry hopped beer (which adds 0 IBU) will TASTE much hoppier because it smells much hoppier.

so that makes sense-considering they dry hop their pale ale with cascade i think and that may explain the sharp bitter taste. i prefer my pale ale not to have such a dramatic bite as the tour de fall has - just had me thinking if something was off.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
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Ger Pils
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Offline gman23

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Re: hop utilization
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2014, 05:12:01 PM »
got to thinking this weekend after drinking new belgium tour de fall pale ale :o

their website lists it as 38 IBU beer, and it really has a strong hop taste to me. i brew a pale ale that beersmith calculates at 45 IBU and mine is nowhere near as hop strong as new belgiums - so began the thinking....

im using pellet hops 1oz centennial at 50min, 1oz cascade at 20 minutes, and .5 oz citra at 10 min. my mash ph is about 5.35-5.40, and my salt additions match the amber balanced profile. im assuming i have less than optimal hop utilization after drinking a comparable commercial IBU beer - whats my most practical path to figuring this out?

Interesting. I found this beer to taste like a slightly hoppier version of fat tire and was quite disappointed with it. I didn't think that the hop taste was strong but I guess that's my palate.

Do you know what scale they use to measure IBUs?  Fat Tire is listed as 22 IBUs and it has always tasted like more to me...
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: hop utilization
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2014, 05:15:50 PM »
got to thinking this weekend after drinking new belgium tour de fall pale ale :o

their website lists it as 38 IBU beer, and it really has a strong hop taste to me. i brew a pale ale that beersmith calculates at 45 IBU and mine is nowhere near as hop strong as new belgiums - so began the thinking....

im using pellet hops 1oz centennial at 50min, 1oz cascade at 20 minutes, and .5 oz citra at 10 min. my mash ph is about 5.35-5.40, and my salt additions match the amber balanced profile. im assuming i have less than optimal hop utilization after drinking a comparable commercial IBU beer - whats my most practical path to figuring this out?

Interesting. I found this beer to taste like a slightly hoppier version of fat tire and was quite disappointed with it. I didn't think that the hop taste was strong but I guess that's my palate.

Do you know what scale they use to measure IBUs?  Fat Tire is listed as 22 IBUs and it has always tasted like more to me...

i dont know what scale they use, however if what was mentioned about IBu vs taste and smell, i think perhaps the dry hopping they do may give the perception we have of "being more".
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline gman23

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Re: hop utilization
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2014, 05:19:11 PM »
Yeah that makes sense for sure. I rarely use a full oz of bittering hops for 5 gallons. I get a substantial amount of IBUs from my late hop additions which seems to increase the actual hop taste/aroma vs the bitterness.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: hop utilization
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2014, 05:22:52 PM »
Yeah that makes sense for sure. I rarely use a full oz of bittering hops for 5 gallons. I get a substantial amount of IBUs from my late hop additions which seems to increase the actual hop taste/aroma vs the bitterness.

I use boil additions mostly at 50/20/10, and have done FWH also. Im not an IPA guy and so my experience with hop bomb beers is zip. I like a nice pale ale but find most IPA and some pale ale overwhelming to my senses.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: hop utilization
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2014, 05:32:27 PM »

Ken's C3P-Ale
American Pale Ale (10 A)
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.34 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 6.24 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 5.25 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Date: 27 Sep 2014
Brewer: ken
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: Kens SS Pot and Igloo Tun (10 Gal/37.8 L) - All Grain
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.8 %

Taste Notes:
Ingredients Amt    Name                             Type    #    %/IBU
10 lbs    maris otter floor malted-warminster (4.5 SRM)    Grain    1    85.1 %
1 lbs    Cara 45 (Dingemans) (47.0 SRM)    Grain    2    8.5 %
12.0 oz    Melanoiden Malt (27.0 SRM)    Grain    3    6.4 %
1.00 oz    Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 40.0 min    Hop    4    28.3 IBUs
1.00 oz    Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min    Hop    5    10.7 IBUs
0.50 Items    Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)    Fining    6    -
0.50 oz    Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min    Hop    7    7.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg    San Diego Super Yeast (White Labs #WLP090)    Yeast    8    -
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.058 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.1 %
Bitterness: 46.0 IBUs
Est Color: 11.1 SRM
Measured Original Gravity: 1.060 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.011 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.4 %
Calories: 200.2 kcal/12oz
Mash Profile
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Sparge Water: 3.99 gal
Sparge Temperature: 180.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 12.0 oz
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Tun Temperature: 100.0 F
Mash PH: 5.40
Mash Steps Name    Description    Step Temperature    Step Time
Mash In    Add 20.04 qt of water at 164.2 F    153.0 F    75 min
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
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Offline gman23

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Re: hop utilization
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2014, 05:35:46 PM »
Looks good to me. So you never dry hop? Just curious.

If that was my beer, I would bring the centennial down to .75 oz and the citra up to 1 oz or find a way to balance the IBUs from the early/late additions to roughly 50/50. Again, that's just me...

I am more of a pale ale guy as we. I definitely love certain commercial IPAs but am not the best at brewing them myself.

EDIT- didn't realize the centennial was at 40 min. I probably wouldn't bring it down if that is the case...
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 05:40:02 PM by goschman »
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: hop utilization
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2014, 05:42:49 PM »
Looks good to me. So you never dry hop? Just curious.

If that was my beer, I would bring the centennial down to .75 oz and the citra up to 1 oz or find a way to balance the IBUs from the early/late additions to roughly 50/50. Again, that's just me...

I am more of a pale ale guy as we. I definitely love certain commercial IPAs but am not the best at brewing them myself.

EDIT- didn't realize the centennial was at 40 min. I probably wouldn't bring it down if that is the case...

i have dry hopped -  i guess I just havent felt compelled to do it often since im not going for accentuated smell/taste.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest