Author Topic: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...  (Read 2156 times)

Offline mugwort

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I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« on: September 30, 2014, 05:37:59 PM »
Anybody decided to forego dry-hopping in favor of putting it all in at whirlpool?  I am doing more and more IPA flameout and chilldown additions these days and really liking it.  Super aroma and flavor.

What I'm not liking are the results I tend to get dry-hopping.  Along with the desired hop aroma, I always get some level of detectable "vegetivity" that comes along with it.  Think about what you smell in addition to the lovely oils when you crush and rub a (non-stale) hop pellet.  It's that green "pelletiness" I keep encountering but haven't yet come across a good descriptor for it or a reliable way to avoid it.

Like a number of others, I've found shorter and warmer additions reduce vegetative character.  I've recently done 3-4 days at between 60 and 70 degrees and things have been better.  But I would love to eliminate it fully.

Anyone dealt with this problem or have any suggestions?  I'm tempted to go back to leaf but those are getting harder to find organically.

While dry-hopping isn't that tough, I find it a hassle, considering the hops tend to over-share.  I won't miss the additional step(s) of dry-hopping, especially if I can achieve say 80% of the end-product hoppiness with additions made during my wort chilling time.

I'm wondering if this is some good pragmatism or simply veiled sour grapes.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2014, 05:52:46 PM »
I don't brew enough hoppy beers to have much of an opinion. I do like the effects of whirlpool but I really like that fresh, slightly green dry hop aroma as well. I'll have to brew 10 gallons and do a split and see. couse, my next hoppy beer is slated to be a double IPA. not sure I want 10 gallons of that. I suppose I could just split 5 gallons between two kegs.
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Offline goschman

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2014, 06:00:03 PM »
I haven't had any of the vegetal issues you describe so its hard for me to feel the need to not dry hop. I will even throw hops in the keg and let them sit for the life of the keg without any noticeable problems. My current IPA has had hops in the keg for months at this point without any ill effects. Maybe my palate just isn't sensitive to the vegetal characteristics.

Is there a particular hop that you use consistently with your hoppy beers that could contribute to this. I have used Bravo a few times and really get an overwhelming hoppiness out of it. Not vegetal necessarily, but not dank either...
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Offline mugwort

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2014, 06:16:47 PM »
Is there a particular hop that you use consistently with your hoppy beers that could contribute to this. I have used Bravo a few times and really get an overwhelming hoppiness out of it. Not vegetal necessarily, but not dank either...
Not really.  I've used organic simcoe, citra, nelson and a few others.  If I'm careful with the time and temps I can get that desired dry-hop character with only a hint of the dry-hop dustyleaf off-flavor.

In those cases, I consider the dry-hop a success, though I can't help but wonder what the original would be tasting like at the same time.  In a number of instances I thought I'd prefer the non-dry-hopped, but a split batch side-by-side tasting like Mort is suggesting would help me evaluate further.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2014, 06:23:34 PM »
I suppose I could just split 5 gallons between two kegs.

I do this often.  It's nice to compare dry-hopped to non. Or oaked to non.  Or whatever.

I have 10 gallons of RIS that will be going into 4 separate 3 gallon pin-locks.  Oak and bourbon for one, not sure about the rest.

EDIT: FWIW, I have never gotten the "vegetal" flavor from dry hops that I can recall. 
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 06:28:46 PM by Joe Sr. »
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2014, 06:28:58 PM »
Nope. I dry hop and whirlpool. I like the flavor best from the whirlpool/hopstand, but like the dry hop aroma better. Best of both worlds for me. I agree with Mort - I like the fresh, slightly green dry hop character.
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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2014, 07:33:46 PM »
Have you tried dry hopping in the keg?

I've always got the cleanest (least stemmy/vegetal) dry hop flavor from dry hopping in the keg at kegorator temps (~45F). I know this breaks away from most commercial and homebrew practices, but its what works for me.

I add 1-2 oz and taste often, usually pulling the bag after a week or two (depending on the type of hops/beer). If I want more dryhop character, I'll repeat the process.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2014, 07:37:50 PM »
I, too, dry hop in the keg.  I keep my kegs at about 60 if they are not tapped.  I usually pull the hops after 10 -14 days.
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Offline kmccaf

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2014, 08:00:35 PM »
Nothing wrong with taking a timeout from dry hopping. This reminds me of the caramel malt discussion a little. I view dry hopping as a tool that will get me to the flavor profile I have in mind. If it tastes vegetal and unpleasant to you then clearly it is not meeting the goals you have in mind. Though, I would agree with others that splitting a batch up would help to clarify your problem with dry hopping. IME, leaving dry hops in for an extended period of time has not caused me issues, ymmv.
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Offline dannyjed

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2014, 08:49:32 PM »
I think this is a great way to experiment. Over a year ago, I made a split batch of American Pale Ale and for one of them I added 1.5 oz hops at flameout (under 180 degrees F); the other I added 1.5 oz  dry hopping for 6 days. They both had good aroma with the dry hop version having a stronger and longer lasting aroma. I wish I would've had a triangle tasting to see what the results would be for more people. I do remember being surprised how much aroma there was for the flameout addition and I quit dry hopping for awhile. Now, in hoppy beers I do both flameout or hopstand and dry hop.
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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2014, 08:51:15 PM »
Curious of the dryhop technique you used (when/where/how)?

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2014, 09:30:34 PM »
I pulled away from dry hopping for a while when I was picking up some odd flavors on my IPA (thinking it was old hops or hops that weren't as fresh) but ended up going back to it after a few months. The IPAs were still good but the aroma was definitely better with the dry hop.

Offline thatgeekguy

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2014, 05:03:26 PM »
I have dry hopped in both primary and keg without any issues regarding taste. I am going to be experimenting with hop oils on my next batch of IPA.

http://www.hoptech.com/collections/hop-oils-extracts
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Offline mugwort

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2014, 07:01:56 PM »
Curious of the dryhop technique you used (when/where/how)?
I've been mostly keg-hopping for the last 2 years.  I put 1 to 3 ounces at a time (all pellets in the last year) in a fine mesh nylon bag with some marbles and rack from primary into the keg, making sure to purge thoroughly with CO2.

For bottle-conditioned beers, I'll put the mesh bag through the neck of the carboy, racking to bottling bucket 4 to 7 room-temp days later.  I've tried loose dry-hopping but can't get the sludge to drop out satisfactorily so I stick to nylon bags.

I've tried contact times from 3 days to 2 months (when keg ran out), and have found that shorter contact time tastes better.  Likewise, I've tried different temps (40 - 75 degrees) and found that warmer temps impart hoppiness with less stemminess.  I'll sometimes do a second addition, switching our the bag after 3 or 4 days.

I say none of this conclusively.  It's just what I've found so far, without going to the lengths of splitting the wort into multiple vessels and dry-hopping under different conditions simultaneously.  This may be on the menu in the future.
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Offline beersk

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Re: I think dry-hopping and I are headed for a timeout...
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2014, 09:00:29 PM »
I don't dry hop anymore either. I add a huge amount at the end of the boil and like the results. Perhaps dry hopping would add more aroma, but I don't brew that many hoppy beers to care and don't like to mess with the beer post fermentation. I've keg hopped before, but perhaps not enough to say that that was way better. Maybe I'll try that on my next IPA.
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