[colinhayes]

Hi all,

So I'm looking at doing a wee heavy as my next beer and I want to get a solid idea of the two methods I can try for the boil.

1. Boil gallon to a quart, add back. Overall boil time regular
2. Extended boil time of unspecified length.

On here, I've seen people advocate boiling the first 1 gallon of running down to 1 quart. That sounds great and all, but I'd like to also know what the "extended boil" time actually is that would produce the caramelization that we're looking for in this beer. Some things I've seen are boiling 10 gal down to 5 gal, which seems a bit excessive to me right now. Would a 2 hour boil do it? 3? Is it more a function of time or volume?

My set up right now boils off about 1.2 gallons per hour (at work away from notebook right now) with the lid partially on the pot. My usual setup is starting with 8 gallons, boiling for 90 minutes, ending with 6.25 gal after cooling, putting 6 gal in the fermentor, and bottling 5.75 gallons. A two hour boil means I need to collect almost 8.4 gallons, and a three hour would mean ~9.2 which is possible in my 10 gal kettle.

Cheers!

[Stevie]

I've only done the reduced first runnings, so can't help with your question. But, I recommend keeping the lid of the pot until you are chilling.

[morticaixavier]

I don't think you CAN get the same level of 'carmelization' or maillard reactions in a full boil that you can get with the 1 gallon. By the time you have boiled that gallon down to a quart you've made syrup. The boiling temp has gone way up from 212 at that point because you are boiling something that's around 1.360 (probably higher) gravity so you get actual carmelization (I think, haven't actually done the math) at the boil temps you can achieve with that much sugar in the mix.

[HoosierBrew]

I don't think you CAN get the same level of 'carmelization' or maillard reactions in a full boil that you can get with the 1 gallon. By the time you have boiled that gallon down to a quart you've made syrup. The boiling temp has gone way up from 212 at that point because you are boiling something that's around 1.360 (probably higher) gravity so you get actual carmelization (I think, haven't actually done the math) at the boil temps you can achieve with that much sugar in the mix.

+1. You'll get a way better beer reducing the gallon to a quart method. You will get some 'caramelly' flavors in a long boil but not of the quality or intensity of this method. It makes an awesome beer.

[colinhayes]

Okay, good enough for me, reduced runnings it is!

And I will keep my lid partially on , I can't deal with the amount of boil off I get with it completely off, and the beers come out great with no DMS.

[brewinhard]

You could always do a bit of both.  An extended 2hr boil along with boiling down the first runnings a bit. 

[morticaixavier]

Okay, good enough for me, reduced runnings it is!

And I will keep my lid partially on , I can't deal with the amount of boil off I get with it completely off, and the beers come out great with no DMS.

if you're not getting any DMS then maybe you don't have to worry but you can control boiloff with flame control as well. I try to keep the surface turning over without having giant foamy rolls trying to leap out of the pot. this also allows be to boil a starting volume of 47 liters in my 50 liter kettle.

[colinhayes]

That's about the boil vigor I see with both burners going full, any less and it'd be a simmer. It's a mighty wide pot, so there's not a whole lot I can do about it. With the lid partially on, I get 15% loss per hour. I don't have figures for what it was with it completely off as I calibrated that a long time ago.

[morticaixavier]

ahh yes, if the dimensions of the pot are wrong you'll get crazy evap without a cover.

[denny]

I don't think you CAN get the same level of 'carmelization' or maillard reactions in a full boil that you can get with the 1 gallon. By the time you have boiled that gallon down to a quart you've made syrup. The boiling temp has gone way up from 212 at that point because you are boiling something that's around 1.360 (probably higher) gravity so you get actual carmelization (I think, haven't actually done the math) at the boil temps you can achieve with that much sugar in the mix.

+1. You'll get a way better beer reducing the gallon to a quart method. You will get some 'caramelly' flavors in a long boil but not of the quality or intensity of this method. It makes an awesome beer.

+ eleventy billion and 14

[colinhayes]

+ eleventy billion and 14

Well if I wasn't convinced before...

Should I keep with a 90 minute boil like normal, then? And collect 0.75 gallons more in total?

[Stevie]

I have one change in plan the next time I do a reduced boil, instead of targeting a volume, I am going to target a temperature using a candy thermometer. I think I will target soft ball stage (235 - 245)

[colinhayes]

I may throw my candy thermometer in the pot and see what it gets down to once it's down to a quart. Brewing this on the 18th or 19th so I can report back

[ynotbrusum]

I found that there is a distinct look that occurs at the right carmelization stage - there are striated bubble seams across the surface.  I wish I had taken a picture.  I boiled a gallon down to somewhere above a pint, but definitely less than a quart.

[Stevie]

I found that there is a distinct look that occurs at the right carmelization stage - there are striated bubble seams across the surface.  I wish I had taken a picture.  I boiled a gallon down to somewhere above a pint, but definitely less than a quart.

Yeah, boiling down to 25% doesn't seem to do it. Flavor is good, color not as dark as I would like.