[HoosierBrew]

I found that there is a distinct look that occurs at the right carmelization stage - there are striated bubble seams across the surface.  I wish I had taken a picture.  I boiled a gallon down to somewhere above a pint, but definitely less than a quart.

Yeah, boiling down to 25% doesn't seem to do it. Flavor is good, color not as dark as I would like.

+2.  I don't get the striated thing necessarily, but the bubbles get really big and take a longtime to pop. Pretty cool looking.

[erockrph]

I found that there is a distinct look that occurs at the right carmelization stage - there are striated bubble seams across the surface.  I wish I had taken a picture.  I boiled a gallon down to somewhere above a pint, but definitely less than a quart.

Yeah, boiling down to 25% doesn't seem to do it. Flavor is good, color not as dark as I would like.

+2.  I don't get the striated thing necessarily, but the bubbles get really big and take a longtime to pop. Pretty cool looking.

And they start to stack up on each other as well

[HoosierBrew]

I found that there is a distinct look that occurs at the right carmelization stage - there are striated bubble seams across the surface.  I wish I had taken a picture.  I boiled a gallon down to somewhere above a pint, but definitely less than a quart.

Yeah, boiling down to 25% doesn't seem to do it. Flavor is good, color not as dark as I would like.

+2.  I don't get the striated thing necessarily, but the bubbles get really big and take a longtime to pop. Pretty cool looking.

And they start to stack up on each other as well

Yep, that too ! Man, I haven't brewed one in a couple years. All this talk is pushing me there. The last one I brewed was a split batch - half as is, the other half got bourbon soaked oak chips in the keg (ala Founders Backwoods Bastard) . Amazing stuff.

[klickitat jim]

I think this is why you don't get the same effect by boiling 6 gallons down to 5.25 vs boiling 1 gallon down to .25 then adding that to the whole mess. The desired "kettle caramelized" effect happens only after most of the h2o is evaporated. You don't get there with reducing 6 gallons to 5.25. Now comes the debate on "kettle carmelizing" and how it's actually melanoidin not carmelizing and all that. Terminology aside, 6 to 5.25 is not the same as 1 to .25, turn adding that to the other 5. Besides, it would be more like 7 gallons total for me...

[dcb]

I have yet to brew this style, though I intend to.  One idea that crosses my mind often seems to border on cheating, but I wonder if anyone has tried it.

Rather than taking the first gallon of runnings and boiling it down, I've always wondered about mixing up a gallon of wort using DME, boiling that down, and adding that to the main boil.  In spirit it seems like a Scottish version of making homemade candi syrup.

I'd love to try it side by side with a batch done the traditional way of boiling down a gallon of first runnings.  I can't make my mind up whether I think that sacrificing the first running to boil down will waste their goodness or put it to good use.

[Stevie]

This idea of using extract was discussed not that long ago. Considering I use only 100% maris otter or golden promise, it makes sense to me. The only downside I see is a little extra cost.

Boiling down the first bit is 100% worth it in my opinion. I build the recipe around the extra volume loss.

The scottish 80/- I recently brewed was simply 10lbs of mo and I aimed at 8.5 gallons starting volume. After adding the reduced volume back, I was just shy of my normal post boil

 I've been using my camping stove to perform the reduction so I can keep an eye on it.

[colinhayes]

Brewing it right now!

I boiled down until I had a nice thick syrupy thing that was extremely sweet and caramely and would foam up the entire stock pot if left. Coated a spoon with a nice, sticky, thick layer, too. Steam was still boiling off, the temp never went above 212°F, and it measured out to be 1 qt.

So I didn't take it up to the soft ball stage or anything, or boil it down to a pint, but it still became about what seemed right. I could have taken it further but that'd require moving it to a smaller pot to get an accurate temperature reading and that's a whole bunch of syrupy mess!

[HoosierBrew]

Brewing it right now!

I boiled down until I had a nice thick syrupy thing that was extremely sweet and caramely and would foam up the entire stock pot if left. Coated a spoon with a nice, sticky, thick layer, too. Steam was still boiling off, the temp never went above 212°F, and it measured out to be 1 qt.

So I didn't take it up to the soft ball stage or anything, or boil it down to a pint, but it still became about what seemed right. I could have taken it further but that'd require moving it to a smaller pot to get an accurate temperature reading and that's a whole bunch of syrupy mess!

Sounds like you did a great job !  I've stopped at that stage several times and ended up with a great beer.

[redbeerman]

I believe the original recipe (a la Skotrat) was to boil one gallon of first runnings down to one pint  This is what I usually do and you get an awesomely thick, sweet syrup.  Never measured the temp though.  And the beer is always wonderful.

[denny]

I believe the original recipe (a la Skotrat) was to boil one gallon of first runnings down to one pint  This is what I usually do and you get an awesomely thick, sweet syrup.  Never measured the temp though.  And the beer is always wonderful.

You're correct.  I use Skotrat's recipe for my Wee Shroomy and that's exactly what I do, too.

[colinhayes]

Denny, you know how long, roughly, it takes you to boil that down?

[69franx]

And are you boiling first running and main boil at same time
Edit for butter fingers

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[erockrph]

And are boiling first running a and main boil at same time

I brew in my kitchen, so I have my main boil going in a 5-gallon kettle on one burner and my side boil going in a 2-gallon pot on another burner. In my experience, the side boil is generally ready about halfway through my main boil, give or take.

[klickitat jim]

It depends on heat and kettle geometry. I do my kettle karma in my 15 gallon BK so it's on flame and about an inch and a half deep. It takes about the amount of time it takes for my sparge water to reach 170. Then I finish running off the mash, do the sparge, and ba bing

[HoosierBrew]

Agreed with around half the time of my main boil, usually a tad longer. Obviously boil rates and sizes vary. It's worth it.