Author Topic: American Mild v3  (Read 2252 times)

Offline denny

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American Mild v3
« on: October 07, 2014, 07:17:10 PM »
No, it's not dead yet!  From http://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/american-mild-v3

Well, after living with the first 2 versions of the American Mild for a few weeks now, I have some thoughts and ideas about the direction of this project.....

I ended up dry hopping the second batch in order to try to give it more flavor. The taste of both batches is pretty good, but as I feared, they're both pretty thin. My wife refers to them as "water beer" because of the mouthfeel and the fact that the flavor is pretty watered down. So I think that instead of the incremental changes I was gonna make, it's time for a rethink and change of direction. I've considered the fact that maybe I need to bump the OG up to 1.045 so I can get more ingredients in there, but I'm going to try a different grist bill first. With that in mind, here's where I think the next batch is heading....

4 lb. Great Western Munich 10L
2 lb. Rahr pale malt
1 lb. C60
1 lb. carapils

I may chicken out on that much carapils and dial it back to 1/2 lb., but the beer sorely needs something to give it some body and mouthfeel. In addition, I came to the conclusion that I really didn't care for the Special Roast being the primary carrier of flavor. It seemed a bit harsh, so I decided to just remove it completely in this version. I'll keep the BU:GU ratio about 1:1 or a bit less with most of the hop additions in the last 10 min. or so, and likely will dry hop it again. I'm really liking the no sparge technique for this, so I'll keep that. I bumped the mash temp up to 165 for the last batch, so I don't have a lot of room to play with there. An interesting discovery from doing that is that the change from a 153 mash temp to 165 really didn't change the body or sweetness much, if any. It certainly didn't change the fermentability. Both batches started and finished at the same gravity. That's contrary to the conventional wisdom about mash temps, but in line with research presented by Greg Doss of Wyeast at the 2012 NHC in Seattle. So I think I'll stick with the 165 mash temp, since I seldom mash that high and this is a good chance to collect some data about it.

I had expected this project to be a challenge, and I'm certainly getting that. The flavor of the first two batches is actually pretty good...there just isn't a lot of it there. I'm hoping I don't hit a brick wall on this, but only more experiments will tell!
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Offline mchrispen

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2014, 07:52:58 PM »
Curious. Do you contribute the lack of body to the OG or lack of dextrins?


You don't mention the yeast at all... while this is an American Mild, it seems like Mild would really need even a light estery English yeast that maybe attenuates around 60-65%?


Excuse the questions marks... I am just speculating.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2014, 07:54:40 PM »
My first one is carbing right now. It seems tart and roasty which is not a great combo for me. Unless it totally changes it might get kicked to the curb.

Offline erockrph

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2014, 08:02:53 PM »
My first one is carbing right now. It seems tart and roasty which is not a great combo for me. Unless it totally changes it might get kicked to the curb.
Try dosing with baking soda before you dump it. This description sounds a lot like my early porters before I started targeting a higher pH. Bumping up the pH a bit may help here.
Eric B.

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Offline denny

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2014, 08:08:52 PM »
Curious. Do you contribute the lack of body to the OG or lack of dextrins?


You don't mention the yeast at all... while this is an American Mild, it seems like Mild would really need even a light estery English yeast that maybe attenuates around 60-65%?


Excuse the questions marks... I am just speculating.

I think it's a combination of both that are making it seem thin.  I used 1450 becasue of the mouthfeel it adds to the beer.  But I don't really want the esters from an English yeast.  Both batches so far started at 1.040 and finished at 1.010.  Interesting in that one was mashed at 153 and the other at 165.  Kinda makes ya wonder what people think is happening when they change mash temp by a degree or 2.

Speculation is fine...that's where I'm at now!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2014, 08:11:12 PM »
have you considered a small addition of flaked rye or flaked barley? just a couple % of the grist shouldn't really lend any flavor to speak up while bumping up the body a bit.

I know my session stout is packed with body at ~30% rye.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2014, 08:11:41 PM »
Denny, have you tried something like oats or rye to increase the viscosity a bit? I've been drinking a few American session beers lately, and I think Founders All Day IPA is the only one that has it right. I think they've been kind of tight-lipped about their recipe, but I've heard them mention in interviews that they have a rather complicated grain bill.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2014, 08:19:06 PM »
Curious. Do you contribute the lack of body to the OG or lack of dextrins?


You don't mention the yeast at all... while this is an American Mild, it seems like Mild would really need even a light estery English yeast that maybe attenuates around 60-65%?


Excuse the questions marks... I am just speculating.

I think it's a combination of both that are making it seem thin.  I used 1450 becasue of the mouthfeel it adds to the beer.  But I don't really want the esters from an English yeast.  Both batches so far started at 1.040 and finished at 1.010.  Interesting in that one was mashed at 153 and the other at 165.  Kinda makes ya wonder what people think is happening when they change mash temp by a degree or 2.

Speculation is fine...that's where I'm at now!
One other idea: maybe try mashing much shorter - like 15-20 minutes. This way you will hopefully get conversion but might leave some of the longer dextrins before they get broken down.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline tommymorris

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2014, 08:55:27 PM »
What about malto-dextrin? Does anyone every use that stuff? I have never tried it.

Offline kmccaf

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2014, 09:21:40 PM »
have you considered a small addition of flaked rye or flaked barley? just a couple % of the grist shouldn't really lend any flavor to speak up while bumping up the body a bit.

I know my session stout is packed with body at ~30% rye.

I took the challenge to brew this, and used 30% flaked rye/wheat. I'm bottling this weekend, so will update then with tasting notes.

Kyle M.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2014, 09:27:22 PM »
+1 to oats or flaked barley - a little of any would boost body. I even like the idea of trying .5 -1 lb maltodextrin or lactose. Some combo of these will boost body. I'm wanting to try my hand at one of these now.
 I also read that Founder's All Day has a pretty extensive grain bill, and that they almost scrapped the idea because they couldn't get the body they wanted to support the hops at their target OG>
Jon H.

Offline brewday

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2014, 12:14:17 AM »
I've tried three times to brew an American Mild/Pride & Joy and have been disappointed each time with the mouthfeel - they were all basically brown hoppy water.  The grain bills were similar to what you've got here, with a bit of roasted malt.  I've used 1968, 1056 and a combo of the two.  Same thinness, different flavor. 

But now that I think about it I was very pleased with the All Day recipe from Zymurgy a couple of months back, and I think that could be applied here:

OG 1.040
FG 1.007

76% 2-Row
6% Caramel 60
6% Munich
6% Wheat
3% Flaked Oats
3% Flaked Corn

Wyeast 1056, Fermented 66*
Single infusion 148*, Mash out/No sparge

50 IBU (~25% bittering, 25% flavor/aroma, dry hopped)

I was concerned that the low mash temp with this yeast would be an issue, but I really enjoyed this beer.  It really came across as bigger than it was, and I didn't pick up any of the wheat/oats/corn - very balanced, finished dry with a touch of sweetness.

So I'd say replace the carapils with .5 lbs wheat and .25 lbs each oats & maize, and mash as usual with the 1450!




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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2014, 12:39:05 AM »
My first one is carbing right now. It seems tart and roasty which is not a great combo for me. Unless it totally changes it might get kicked to the curb.
Try dosing with baking soda before you dump it. This description sounds a lot like my early porters before I started targeting a higher pH. Bumping up the pH a bit may help here.

I drew a sample and it's still a few days from being carbed up. Its getting better. Its odd, the hydrometer sample wasn't tart. But was lacking hop aroma so I tossed in an ounce of cascade pellets for a week. I didn't sample when I racked it, should have. First sample was just a couple days on CO2 and I got the tartness pretty strong. I thought maybe I got a fly at transfer and it was acetic. Today's sample it much less tart so it's not that. It must be a strange interaction between the hops and the roast. I put a touch of baking soda in and the tart disappears so, you are probably right. A bit low on the pH.

When I run a second try at American Mild I'm going to shoot for one that is no roastiness. So it won't be brown. Maybe light amber. So at some point the Mild label will have zero connection to the English Mild.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2014, 12:52:23 AM »
By the way, since it's all an experiment I dosed the keg with a heaping table spoon of soda dissolved in a quarter cup of water, and I'm blooming some gelatin to fine it too.

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Re: American Mild v3
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2014, 02:48:00 AM »
If you are open to a different yeast strain, give Bry 97 a shot.