Author Topic: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points  (Read 1579 times)

Offline Kit B

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I've been reading through A LOT of posts/information on cold steeping dark grains...
Sure, we all know that cold steeping helps you avoid the harsh flavors & mouth-feels contributed by our dark grains...
But, one piece of information seems to be missing from every document that I've found.
The missing information that I've been in search of is:
How many gravity points can be achieved, with cold steeping?

I see people throwing out statements like "Use twice the amount of dark grains" or "You'll get roughly 2/3 the amount that you would, based on 50% extract efficiency"...
...Wait...What???

Has anyone actually done in-depth assessment of what a pound of Grain-X in a half gallon of water would yield, after cold steeping?

Just curious.
Thanks, for reading my question.
I look forward to reading your thoughts & answers.

Why would anyone want to drink stale beer?

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2014, 07:52:50 PM »
I don't generally worry about the gravity points from dark grains. the percentage of the grist is usually small and roasted grain doesn't have much starch to convert in the first place.
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2014, 07:54:23 PM »
I don't generally worry about the gravity points from dark grains. the percentage of the grist is usually small and roasted grain doesn't have much starch to convert in the first place.


+1 - The insides are fairly destroyed in the roasting. Extract would be near 0% as there are not enzymes to convert what starches are there.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2014, 08:01:54 PM »
I don't generally worry about the gravity points from dark grains. the percentage of the grist is usually small and roasted grain doesn't have much starch to convert in the first place.


+1 - The insides are fairly destroyed in the roasting. Extract would be near 0% as there are not enzymes to convert what starches are there.
The starches have been carbonized, so adding to the mash with enzymes does not get you much.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 08:03:29 PM »
I've been reading through A LOT of posts/information on cold steeping dark grains...
Sure, we all know that cold steeping helps you avoid the harsh flavors & mouth-feels contributed by our dark grains...
But, one piece of information seems to be missing from every document that I've found.
The missing information that I've been in search of is:
How many gravity points can be achieved, with cold steeping?

I see people throwing out statements like "Use twice the amount of dark grains" or "You'll get roughly 2/3 the amount that you would, based on 50% extract efficiency"...
...Wait...What???

Has anyone actually done in-depth assessment of what a pound of Grain-X in a half gallon of water would yield, after cold steeping?

Just curious.
Thanks, for reading my question.
I look forward to reading your thoughts & answers.

One can always take a measurement using a handy hydrometer. I might do that someday.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Kit B

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 08:04:05 PM »
Really?
I mean no disrespect, but I have a feeling that may be incorrect.

From what I've been led to understand, dark grains have crystalized (probably unfermentable) sugars still locked in that were converted from starches, before the kilning/roasting process & shouldn't need any enzymes for conversion, as they have already been converted.
That crystalized sugar should also be soluble & have the ability to contribute to the specific gravity of your wort, regardless of the temperature at which they are steeped.

Is my understanding wrong?
Why would anyone want to drink stale beer?

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 08:06:27 PM »
I don't cold steep.

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 08:10:15 PM »
Really?
I mean no disrespect, but I have a feeling that may be incorrect.

From what I've been led to understand, dark grains have crystalized (probably unfermentable) sugars still locked in that were converted from starches, before the kilning/roasting process & shouldn't need any enzymes for conversion, as they have already been converted.
That crystalized sugar should also be soluble & have the ability to contribute to the specific gravity of your wort, regardless of the temperature at which they are steeped.

Is my understanding wrong?

For crystal, you're correct.  But for things like roast barley, you are incorrect.  Roast barley, for instance, was never malted in the first place.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 08:18:07 PM »
That is true for crystal malts, where the conversion is done in the grains by soaking in water, taking to scarification temp, then kilned/roasted and allowed to crystalize. Roasted malts are not soaked and held at Sach temps, and are roasted at much higher temps. Making black patent requires skill, as it is dumped from the roaster just before it catches fire, according to an NHC talk.

The black malts are pretty much unfermentable.

Edit - I do hope that there is a good discussion of what the Dark Roasted malts bring to the party in the new Malt book coming out.
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Offline Kit B

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2014, 08:18:56 PM »
Thanks, for clarifying!
I really appreciate the help.
Why would anyone want to drink stale beer?

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2014, 08:27:36 PM »
dark crystal grains would give up some sugars I imagine but I have no idea what the efficiency would be in comparison to a hot mash.
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2014, 08:41:42 PM »
When I think "dark" I think roasted malts such as pale chocolate and above. Never considered crystal to be dark.

What is the darkest crystal? 120-150?

Offline Kit B

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2014, 09:04:38 PM »
http://www.vikingmalt.com/en/?id=185

Looks like there's 300L out there.

   
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2014, 09:09:12 PM »
http://www.vikingmalt.com/en/?id=185

Looks like there's 300L out there.


That is 300 EBC which would be 113.06658792263399L


Castle (and I am sure plenty others) uses EBC for their colors and I got all confused one time.  ???

Offline Kit B

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grain with Respect to Specific Gravity Points
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2014, 09:18:22 PM »
Doh!!!

Well, for sure there's 200L.
I've seen that.
Why would anyone want to drink stale beer?