[archstanton]

The sugars are pretty much set so all you are doing is separating them from the grain. So you should expect to see the same number of points from cold steeping using the same rinsing process.  I have done a few experiments with room temp water and after a couple minutes temperature was basically irrelevant. All were 80%+ extraction efficiency after a five minute soak.

With regards to people discussing using more in the cold steep, it is because the color and flavor they are after is leeching from the grain matter at a slower pace than a hot steep and more grain is used to compensate. 

[Kit B]

To continue this discussion...
I've been reading more about dark grains & their sugar content.
Denny is indeed correct about roasted barley not being malted before kilning.
However, roasted barley isn't the only dark grain we cold steep.
In truth, there are some dark grains that are malted, before kilning.
Some of these include:
Black Malt/Black Patent Malt
Chocolate Malt (Simpsons)
Carafa Malts

Here's what I know, for sure...
The carmelization temperature of maltose is listed as 356*F.
Most malted grains are roasted at temperatures between 350*F & 500*F (with some black malts seeing up to 700*F).
Often, these temperatures will cause sugars to be burned, removing them from the SG equation.
Apparently, each maltster may have different temperatures & roasting schedules. So, I guess I'll have to do some experimenting, to find out how much sugar is still intact in each grain type that I typically use.

Thanks, folks.

[Stevie]

You can often find the full stats for a given malt on the maltster's website. I wouldn't trust specs from retail websites.

[morticaixavier]

of those you list I think only the chocolate malts are roasted below 350-400 and you will get some sugar from those but if you are using a lb in a 5 gallon batch that is a lot of chocolate malt and it's under 1.005 at 100% efficiency. at a normal efficiency you're talking at most about 4 gravity points.

[Kit B]

of those you list I think only the chocolate malts are roasted below 350-400 and you will get some sugar from those but if you are using a lb in a 5 gallon batch that is a lot of chocolate malt and it's under 1.005 at 100% efficiency. at a normal efficiency you're talking at most about 4 gravity points.

Where did you find the 1.005 @ 100% efficiency?

[morticaixavier]

of those you list I think only the chocolate malts are roasted below 350-400 and you will get some sugar from those but if you are using a lb in a 5 gallon batch that is a lot of chocolate malt and it's under 1.005 at 100% efficiency. at a normal efficiency you're talking at most about 4 gravity points.

Where did you find the 1.005 @ 100% efficiency?

I was generous and assumed 31 ppg for chocolate malt. this may be high. so 1 lb in 5 gallons is about 6 points so my numbers were low. 1.006 at 100% brewhouse efficiency which is unlikely. I get around 70% as a rule so for me it would add just under 5 points

[Kit B]

OK...That makes sense.
If I have 1# of chocolate malt with a 1.028 potential SG in 11 gallons, it's 1.545 points.

But...Is that potential SG is calculated by the maltster, with an assumption that I'll mash it & convert starches?

Maybe, I'm better off using a calc of zero.
But, I really don't like to have floating unknowns.

Again...Thanks!

[morticaixavier]

that is withing the margin of error on your instruments unless you have very expensive instruments 

[klickitat jim]

Wait until you get into making wild beer, its full of floating unknowns

[denny]

Floating Unknowns would be a great name for a band...

[klickitat jim]

Floating Unknowns would be a great name for a band...

Lounge lizzard accompaniment covering jazzed up versions of 80s ballads at the bar in the Laramie Wy airport hotel.

[morticaixavier]

Floating Unknowns would be a great name for a band...

Lounge lizzard accompaniment covering jazzed up versions of 80s ballads at the bar in the Laramie Wy airport hotel.

then it would have to be Grav Itypoints and the Floating Unknowns

[HoosierBrew]

Floating Unknowns would be a great name for a band...

Lounge lizzard accompaniment covering jazzed up versions of 80s ballads at the bar in the Laramie Wy airport hotel.

Man, I'm there