Author Topic: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers  (Read 2042 times)

Offline wardens355

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Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« on: October 16, 2014, 04:19:32 AM »
I am going to brew a Oud Bruin as my first sour ever this weekend and have decided on my yeasts/cultures: Roeselare Blend for 4.5 to 5 gallons, and de Bom blend for the other 4.5 to 5 gallons.  Any pointers on these two?  Do folks typically let the smack packs swell up before pitching?  Or do you want the exact proportions in the pack to enter the beer initially? 

And does anyone have experience with de Bom?  I am leary of pitching at 80 degrees for the off-compounds of the Saccharomyces.  Wyeast strongly recommends following their directions, so I probably will, other than pitching at 65, since that is where I plan to cool the batch to pitch the Roeselare.  I will then wrap the de Bom carboy in a heating pad with a cheap Hydrofarm thermostat set at 78-82 F and let it warm up overnight. 

If I have the Roeselare batch in the freezer, is it ill-advised to put any non-sour beers in there with it for cross-contamination purposes?

Pretty excited about diving into sour brewing, hoping the de Bom works out to have something interesting to try in less than 6-12 months.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2014, 04:36:02 AM »
I don't know about the deBomb but on the Roselaere blend there are questions about pitching rates and repitching yeasts and how that affects the ratios of the bugs and yeasts....but ultimately it seems like the Roselaere finds a way to balance out.  I am definitely interested in hearing about this.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2014, 03:34:20 PM »
I've seen people talking about the de Bom blend and most people seems to think the recommended fermentation approach is nuts. That said, I am pretty sure Wyeast tested the schedule before recommending it. So I am sure it works. It just seems like a recipe for an acetic beer. I am sure you could make a good beer without following the weird schedule to produce a quick sour and you probably want to let that beer ride as long as the other portion so you can either bottle and taste side by side or better yet blend together.
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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2014, 04:05:56 PM »
I have a similar experiment going with De Bom and the Oud Bruin blend from Wyeast.

I pitched both blends in primary a few months ago and have just let them go (~65F in the basement). I didn't follow the De Bom recommended procedure because I wanted to compare the batches side by side. Also - pitching a mixed culture in primary and fermenting at ambient is my go-to method for sours, so I want to see how the blends perform with my process.

If this is your first foray into sours, I wouldn't over-complicate it. Brew beer, aerate and pitch blend, taste it in 6 months. If you have the ability, control fermentation temps during primary as you would a clean beer.

I wouldn't worry about the heating pad. IME warmer temps accelerate flavor/acid development at the expense of complexity. Low and slow (~65F for 6-18 months) has always produced the best beers.

You don't have to wait for the pack to swell, but you want them at the same temp as the wort.

No worries about storing clean/sour fermentors in the same space. Yeast/bacteria are all over the place, so if you're keeping out the local microflora, you're good to go. Infection doesn't come from yeast/bacteria jumping from one fermentor to the other - it comes from yeast/bacteria in the environment. Just make sure you keep the airlocks full of sanitizer.
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Offline kramerog

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2014, 04:09:39 PM »
I think de Bom is seasonal.  It doesn't appear to be available right now.

Offline wardens355

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2014, 07:20:00 PM »
de Bom was a seasonal offering, but a homebrew shop had a last pack, so I bought it.  Still on the fence regarding temperature control for the de Bom.  I don't wanna ferment 'hot', but why would Wyeast tell you to do something that makes nasty beer?  Leaning towards separate control for each batch - freezer at 65 for the Roeselare, and heating pad at 80 for the de Bom.  Eventually moving the Roeselare out to room at 68ish.  But... leaving the door open to the last minute for the option to keep the de Bom at 65 as well.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2014, 10:47:10 PM »
I will be kegging an oud bruin I made 4 wks ago with the WY oud bruin blend (just lacto and sacch).  I too was a little nervous about pitching and fermenting at 80F.  I decided to give it a shot as the lacto will benefit from the get-go if the temps are kept higher.  As far as I am guessing, the sachh. strain might be a saison strain which can also tolerate the higher temps (see fermenting WY 3724 thread). 

I chilled to 75F, pitched the swollen pack into an unaerated wort with about 12 IBU's at 1.065 OG.  I let it warm up to 80F with a fermwrap and fermented between 80-82F till completion. I did not buy into the "micro-aeration" steps that Wyeast proposed to increase the acidity and therefore did not do those steps as I felt they would lead to oxidation which is a major pet peeve of mine.  I will keg this weekend with an update.  Hopefully no fusels or off-flavors.  We shall see what this strain does with this process. 

Offline wardens355

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2014, 02:33:05 PM »
Brew day now in progress - gonna follow Wyeast directions for the de Bom and leave that carboy out with supplemental heating.  Both packs are out of the fridge and smacked, will pitch in several hours.  Just need to find a spot in my apartment where any funk emanating from the air lock won't be out of place.  Maybe next to my clothes hamper...

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2014, 09:57:41 PM »
Kegged my oud bruin with the WY private release Oud bruin blend.  No noticeable fusel alcohol aromas or flavors even fermenting at 80-82F more or less from the get-go.  No weird off-flavors derived from the yeast either.  Hardly any sourness or acidity noted and a fairly high FG remained (I did mash around 157F with a dextrinous grist) of 1.025.   I am not too concerned as I was brewing this one for a blend with another Oud bruin that is a year old and hovering around 1.006 FG (a bit too low for my tastes for this style). 

I left the keg at moderate basement temps around 70F and will check on it in a mos or two to see if the acidity has increased and/or the FG has dropped.  I am hoping for both.  So far, a bit unimpressed by this blend.  Definitely not drinkable in 6-8 wks (providing I did not micro-aerate). 

Offline redbeerman

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 07:01:30 PM »
Kegged my oud bruin with the WY private release Oud bruin blend.  No noticeable fusel alcohol aromas or flavors even fermenting at 80-82F more or less from the get-go.  No weird off-flavors derived from the yeast either.  Hardly any sourness or acidity noted and a fairly high FG remained (I did mash around 157F with a dextrinous grist) of 1.025.   I am not too concerned as I was brewing this one for a blend with another Oud bruin that is a year old and hovering around 1.006 FG (a bit too low for my tastes for this style). 

I left the keg at moderate basement temps around 70F and will check on it in a mos or two to see if the acidity has increased and/or the FG has dropped.  I am hoping for both.  So far, a bit unimpressed by this blend.  Definitely not drinkable in 6-8 wks (providing I did not micro-aerate).
 

It will probably need 6 to 8 months to see any real sourness.  At least this is my experience with both White Labs and Wyeast Lambic blends or home grown blends of Sac/Lacto/Pedio/Brett I have done in the past.  Most sour funky beers are better aged a long time at cellar temps.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 10:54:04 PM »
Agreed. I have observed the same.  I was just commenting with regards to Wyeast's statements that the beer can be drinkable for a sour in 6-8 wks. 

Offline 4swan

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2014, 09:53:49 PM »
I had a better experience with the two beers I brewed with the Oud Bruin blend.  I'm starting to drink them at eight weeks and they have a pronounced, but not overwhelming sourness.  It tastes to me like lactic acid and not vinegar/acetic acid.  I do not detect any funk.  They were fermented at 76 with no temperature control, and went higher during active fermentation.  I did not do any microaeration. Overall a very drinkable sour beer.

Offline wardens355

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2014, 03:11:11 AM »
I took a gravity sample at 7 days for the de Bom batch.  From 1.063 to 1.018, with some tartness already and a bit of barnyard aroma.  Bumped with 15 seconds of oxygen.  I'll pull a small sample this coming weekend for flavor/aroma.  Maintaining at 82-84F.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2014, 02:29:45 PM »
I had a better experience with the two beers I brewed with the Oud Bruin blend.  I'm starting to drink them at eight weeks and they have a pronounced, but not overwhelming sourness.  It tastes to me like lactic acid and not vinegar/acetic acid.  I do not detect any funk.  They were fermented at 76 with no temperature control, and went higher during active fermentation.  I did not do any microaeration. Overall a very drinkable sour beer.

My understanding is that the oud bruin blend does not have brett so you won't develop any funk.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Oud Bruin - First Adventure into Sour Beers
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2014, 02:43:34 PM »
I had a better experience with the two beers I brewed with the Oud Bruin blend.  I'm starting to drink them at eight weeks and they have a pronounced, but not overwhelming sourness.  It tastes to me like lactic acid and not vinegar/acetic acid.  I do not detect any funk.  They were fermented at 76 with no temperature control, and went higher during active fermentation.  I did not do any microaeration. Overall a very drinkable sour beer.

My understanding is that the oud bruin blend does not have brett so you won't develop any funk.
Interesting. If that's the case, I can't really see what the advantage is over souring with Lacto first in either the mash/wort or in the fermenter prior to pitching an ale strain.
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