Author Topic: Hop stand newbie advice  (Read 2106 times)

Offline -Liam-

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Hop stand newbie advice
« on: October 16, 2014, 04:37:01 AM »
As a hopstand/hopburst novice, I'd love any opinions or suggestions regarding my (very loose) plan for this weekend's 5gl. brew...

I have (but of course don't necessarily need to use all of the amounts)

11lbs of Thomas Fawcett Pearl
1lb Carafoam
1lb Carared
1oz Magnum
9oz Citra
5oz Nelson Sauvin
Yeast Bay Vermont yeast.

I wanted to keep the malts relatively simple and was going to add some Magnum at FWH and some/all of the Citra & NS at/after flameout, hoping to get some great hop flavour & aroma. I intend to dry hop also. What experience do you guys have at particular addition temps and in what amounts? I've no experience of this technique and would be very grateful for any advice that can be sent my way.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2014, 06:06:30 AM »
What kind of beer are you planning on brewing? IPA, I'm assuming?

For a grain bill, I'd use all of the Pearl and a half pound of the CaraRed. If you want more gravity, use some table sugar.

For the hops, there are a few different ways of handling it. Depending on the AA%, the Magnum might not give you enough IBU's as a 60-minute addition. I'd target about 60-70 IBU on a typical IPA that we're going to crush with late hops like this. :D  I've never used Citra or Nelson as a bittering hop (sacrilege!), so I couldn't say which one to use to make up your IBU total. I guess Citra, since you have more of it.

For the hop stand, I'd chill to 170 F. Save 2 oz of Citra and 1 oz of Nelson for the dry hops, then add the rest in. Stir until everything is dispersed in the wort. Cover and let it sit for 45 minutes or so. Stir whenever you think of it (every 5-10 minutes). After the hop stand, chill and ferment as usual. I dry hop in the primary about 7-10 days in. Others do it in secondary or the keg. Choose whichever you prefer.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline -Liam-

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2014, 12:44:47 PM »
Sorry, yes it's an IPA.
I have a little warrior and columbus knocking around in my freezer, perhaps I could use one of these to help with the initial bittering?
So, when I get the temperature to 170 for the additions, do I just let it drop naturally during the hopstand or should I maintain temperature as best I can? (I'm brewing on an electric stove top, so could be slightly tricky)

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2014, 12:58:06 PM »
First off, good advice from erockrph. Being an IPA I would use an oz of Columbus as your bittering addition instead. It gives a nice bittering quality to IPA. No, when you cool to 170F add the hops, stir and cover, stirring occasionally. But don't try to hold the temp. And personally I would blend the Citra and Nelson hops and reserve maybe 5 oz of that to dry hop, adding the balance for your hop stand. There are several good hopping approaches that work well for IPA. From my viewpoint, the breweries that are famous for IPA do whirlpool/hop stand hopping as well as using healthy amounts of dry hopping - this is what I do. But as said there are several good methods, so you'll need to experiment a little to find out what you prefer. Let us know how it comes out !
Jon H.

Offline -Liam-

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2014, 01:17:18 PM »
If I was to use 5oz of my hops for the dry hopping, would the remainder used in the hop stand be enough to achieve the hop burst effect or should I buy some more and bump it up by another couple of ounces (in hop stand)?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2014, 01:19:23 PM »
That would leave 9 oz by my count. That's a sizeable amount.
Jon H.

Offline -Liam-

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2014, 01:22:02 PM »
Great! I'm very excited to try this out but also anxious, as the hops for a recipe like this do start to get expensive and I hope I don't screw it up!  :o

Offline markpotts

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2014, 03:38:17 PM »
Sounds like a plan  :)
Just remember that each gram of hops added will soak up around 15ml of wort. You may want to adjust your recipe to account for this and ensure you end up with the amount of beer you desire at the end.
Good luck.
Yorkshire, England

Offline erockrph

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2014, 06:02:47 AM »
Sounds like a plan  :)
Just remember that each gram of hops added will soak up around 15ml of wort. You may want to adjust your recipe to account for this and ensure you end up with the amount of beer you desire at the end.
Good luck.
Good point here, although that estimate seems a bit high. That works out to almost 2 gallons for a pound of hops. I've stuffed a pound of hops in 1 gallon before and was still able to wring out a few pints worth into the fermenter. I'd say a gallon per pound of hops is closer to what I get.

But that brings up another good point. You will have a LOT of hop material in the kettle, and you will want to keep as much out of your fermenter as possible. I'm not sure what your rig looks like, but a hopback (or something equivalent) will be really helpful.

I brew 3 gallon batches (2 gallons for IPA  ;D ), so this may not work as well at different scales. What I've done is rack to my fermenter through an autosiphon. I stuff a nylon stocking with an ounce or so of whole cone hops and zip-tie it to the outflow from the tubing. This is a great filter bed and it catches most of the gunk flowing through from the kettle.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline -Liam-

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2014, 01:21:10 PM »
Sounds like a plan  :)
Just remember that each gram of hops added will soak up around 15ml of wort. You may want to adjust your recipe to account for this and ensure you end up with the amount of beer you desire at the end.
Good luck.
Good point here, although that estimate seems a bit high. That works out to almost 2 gallons for a pound of hops. I've stuffed a pound of hops in 1 gallon before and was still able to wring out a few pints worth into the fermenter. I'd say a gallon per pound of hops is closer to what I get.

But that brings up another good point. You will have a LOT of hop material in the kettle, and you will want to keep as much out of your fermenter as possible. I'm not sure what your rig looks like, but a hopback (or something equivalent) will be really helpful.

I brew 3 gallon batches (2 gallons for IPA  ;D ), so this may not work as well at different scales. What I've done is rack to my fermenter through an autosiphon. I stuff a nylon stocking with an ounce or so of whole cone hops and zip-tie it to the outflow from the tubing. This is a great filter bed and it catches most of the gunk flowing through from the kettle.

Yes, I am a little concerned about the amount of hop matter left at the end. I will probably run a tube from my boil kettle valve through a sieve.

Offline -Liam-

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 12:32:37 AM »
So, just to update on this brew, if interested.
I took all the advice on board and made a couple of small changes...

recipe:-

11lbs Pearl
.75lbs Carared
.5lbs Carafoam
.75lbs Turbinado Sugar

The pearl malt seemed to produce more flour than my usual crush and I had a stuck sparge. I stirred things up and I was left with a pretty cloudy run off even after another vorlauf. I'm guessing this beer will be hazy from all the hops anyway, so clarity doesn't bother me.
I added 1.5oz of Magnum at FWH.
60 min boil with Turbinado added with 12mins left.
Shut off the heat and cooled to 170F then dumped in 6oz Citra & 3oz Nelson Sauvin.
I let them soak for 45mins, stirring every 10mins or so.
I scaled up slightly, so ended up with 5.5 Gl in the carboy, but a lot of hop matter came with it, even when trying to be careful. I couldn't believe the amount that was still left in the kettle!  :o
I made a large starter with the Yeast bay Vermont strain and it must have kicked off quickly, as I finished yesterday evening and it was fermenting nicely early this morning. I plan to dry hop with a further 3oz Citra & 2oz Nelson.
my OG was 1.060.
This was also my first time using RO water and my profile was
Cal. 114
Mag. 17
Sod. 18
Chl. 53
Sul. 278
I also used a little acidulated malt.

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2014, 08:12:52 PM »
TF Pearl is my standard British pale malt. It's a big time dough ball producer, but it also yields a higher amount of extract per pound of grain than many other British pale malts.  That being said, I have not experienced any runoff clarity problems.  What is the gap on your roller mill?  Did you experience any dough balls?

Offline -Liam-

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2014, 12:44:30 AM »
TF Pearl is my standard British pale malt. It's a big time dough ball producer, but it also yields a higher amount of extract per pound of grain than many other British pale malts.  That being said, I have not experienced any runoff clarity problems.  What is the gap on your roller mill?  Did you experience any dough balls?

I did have dough-balls, plenty of them! More than I've had with any other malt. I'm not exactly sure what my gap is, as I don't have anything to measure it with and it doesn't have any 'settings'

Offline -Liam-

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2014, 05:00:23 AM »
Again, just a quick update on this brew, if anyone is interested...The beer has been in the bottle for 8 days now. I cracked one open 2 days ago to see how it's coming along; The aroma from the glass was great, maybe still not quite as much as I was expecting, considering how much hops I used. But still way way better than any of my previous IPAs. The beer had a green quality to it in more ways than one - It literally seems to have a green hue to it! The body felt very thin and it seemed as though my mouth/throat were slightly burning after a few tastes. Almost like the sensation from chillies, without the heat, if that makes sense? My throat was sort of tingling. Very strange feeling from a beer! It also seemed to lack any malt sweetness and is pretty dry overall. I've no idea how this is going to condition/mellow during the next few weeks carbing and conditioning in the fridge, but if I'm being totally honest, I'm expecting to be somewhat disappointed.  :(

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Hop stand newbie advice
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 12:25:33 PM »
If it has a green hue, then you've let a fair amount of hop debris into your bottles (or at least the one you opened). It's only 8 days as you say - that stuff will settle out over time. Give it another week and be sure to pour carefully with the rest. In the future you could wrap a (sanitized) fine mesh hop bag or even a piece of nylon women's hose around the end of your racking cane to act as a filter. This will help get cleaner beer into your bottling bucket. Don't draw any big conclusions on the beer yet - hops taste great, the debris does not. It'll settle out in time.

EDIT -  As soon as you feel the beer is carbed properly, it'll speed up the settling process to keep the bottles in the fridge. Just be sure it's carbed well first - it won't carb any further in the fridge.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 01:01:16 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.