[69franx]

Looking at making a Dunkel from BCS this weekend. Grist as follows: 12.5# Munich II(11.7srm) and 5oz Carafa II(430srm) for 6 gallon batch.
My LHBS lists both Carafa 1 & 3 but no 2. If I cannot get the 2, what quantity of which of the other 2 should I go with? First time I have made this, so I am not too concerned about the color change on such a small quantity, just want to be in the ball park. Beersmith has me at following specs: OG 1.054, Color 19.7 and ABV of 5.1% so I have some leeway. I already have the Munich II but not milled yet. Once purchased I can set this back up in Beersmith to be where I want to be, if I make the right purchase. Not sure what flavor differences the 3 tyoes of Carafa bring to the table
Next question is pH. I set it up in Bru'NWater as Brown Malty profile, and worked to get the pH to 5.48(the software says 5.4-5.5 for darker beers) is this where I want to be? Nothing measured out yet for water additions, so I can set it just about anywhere with gypsum, epsom, CaCl2, pickling lime, and baking soda. I'm still new to water treatments, again, just want to be in the ball park
Any input is appreciated, thanks in advance

[erockrph]

Carafa is solely a color correction in this grist. I'd do an SRM calculation and sub in an appropriate amount of Carafa Special 3.

I like to target a pH of 5.4 for most lagers. I only use higher pH for beers where I have a significant roast character like a stout or robust porter.

[69franx]

Thanks Eric, both if those help a lot


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[69franx]

Building from RO, adding gypsum, NaCl, CaCl2, and lime, I come out with pH of 5.4, with the following results:
Ca:60.2
Mg: 0, left out the epsom to get the rest to fit better
Na: 15.3
Sulphate: 50.1
Chloride: 56
TH: 150
Alkalinity: 53
RA: 10
SO4/Cl: 0.9
fits Malty Brown very closely, thanks

[rabeb25]

I have the BCS Dunkel on tap, and for me it is too roasty(delicious) but too roasty for me. My old go to dunkel was 99% munichII (~9srm) 1% carafaII.

[69franx]

My LHBS did not have Carafa II, so I bought Carafa III. My grist is now 98.6% (12.5#)Munich II(11.7srm) with 1.4% (2.9oz)Carafa III(676srm.) The Carafa was listed at 500L and I used Brew Toad color converter to wind up at the 676srm. I hope I did this correctly. This will be my first Dunkel, so I wont really have anything to compare it to. There are some commercial examples around, but most may not be the freshest. I hope I like it. The plan is for this to be the first beer in a succession of Dunkel, Bock, and dopplebock. We shall see how they all come out. Thanks for the input

[mabrungard]

Next question is pH. I set it up in Bru'NWater as Brown Malty profile, and worked to get the pH to 5.48(the software says 5.4-5.5 for darker beers) is this where I want to be?

A Dunkel is not a roasty beer. There should be very little, if any roast flavor noted in the flavor profile. Therefore, the pH target should be more along the lines of 5.3 to 5.4. 

I see that I should revise the language in that Bru'n Water comment to avoid this misconception. I forgot about the malty and not roasty, dark beer styles. Sorry about that!

[69franx]

Thanks Martin, I will play around with it to get into that zone. I should not have much roastiness with just 1.4% Carafa 3 in there, correct?

[69franx]

Martin, after toying  with it some more, I have the following profile specs:
Ca. 51.7
Mg still zero added to my RO
Na. 15
SO4. 48.6
Cl2. 59.4
Bicarbonate. 33.4
TH. 129
Alkalinity at 28
RA. -9
SO4/Cl2= .8
A little lower than brown malty calls for in Ca, TH,and Alkalinity, with pH at 5.36.
How does all that look?

[blatz]

I have the BCS Dunkel on tap, and for me it is too roasty(delicious) but too roasty for me. My old go to dunkel was 99% munichII (~9srm) 1% carafaII.

I found most of jamil's dark lagers - dunkel, schwarzbier and bock to be too heavily roasted - especially the schwarzbier. 

[morticaixavier]

I have the BCS Dunkel on tap, and for me it is too roasty(delicious) but too roasty for me. My old go to dunkel was 99% munichII (~9srm) 1% carafaII.

I found most of jamil's dark lagers - dunkel, schwarzbier and bock to be too heavily roasted - especially the schwarzbier.

I just had a schwarzbier brewed to that recipe at brew club. the brewer is excellent and the beer was wonderful but too roasty for the style and a bit too caramelly as well.

[mabrungard]

Paul, I agree that I found Jamil's recipes to be slightly too roasty for style. Maybe he was using the 'reserve the roast to the end' technique? That would be a good use of that technique where you just want a little color and not much roast flavor.

Frank, I think you are going to have a little too much roast flavor if you don't reserve to the end. I made a similar Dunkel with a similar percentage of carafa 3 and still had a hint of roasty flavor. It was all mashed together. I should have reserved it.

[69franx]

So Martin, you think the water looks good, just add the carafa just prior to vorlauf and sparge. Should I then make adjustments in Bru"nWater for the fact that carafa really is not being mashed?

[HoosierBrew]

If you add the Carafa at sparge, then you'll want to remove it from the grist tab on Bru'nwater since it won't be mashing with the other grains and affecting the mash pH.

[69franx]

Thanks Jon. I am playing around with it right now. I can just use the check box on mash acidification table for "remove roast malts from main mash," correct?