[danmages]

I finally have all of my ducks in a row to brew my high gravity RIS tomorrow morning. I could not get the Phoenix hops I like using for stouts, so picked up some target hops instead. I also have 2 oz of challenger and 2 ounces of whole cone fuggles. I would appreciate advice on the final hop bill. I am aiming for a balance between the hops and malt, much like an English Barleywine

15lbs Maris Otter
2 lbs flaked barley
1lbs chocolate
1lbs roasted barley
.75 extra dark crystal 135L
.25 lbs dark crystal 75L

Mash at 156, 2 hour boil.

Hops
2.5 oz target for 60 minutes
.5 oz Phoenix for 30 minutes
.5 oz Phoenix for 15 minutes
.75 oz Fuggles in the whirlpool

I have a good starter of Wyeast 1028 fermenting right now.

This should give me a gravity of 1.098 with about 90 IBUs. Does anyone have advice or thoughts?

[reverseapachemaster]

I'm not sure I think 90 IBU is balanced in that beer. I think anything about 70 IBU is going to be more bitter than balanced.

However, if I understand the title of your thread correctly, you plan on barrel aging the beer and you may want a little more bitterness going into the barrel so it comes out of the barrel with some balance. In that case the 90 IBU may not be out of line.

[Joe Sr.]

If I were doing it, I would sub out some of the MO for sugar.  I think that with MO as your base and mashing at 156 you're going to have a beer that has sufficient body and the sugar should help it attenuate.

I would sub East Kent Goldings for the Fuggles at the end.  But I like Fuggles, too.  I just like EKG more as a finishing hop.  I think it's classically English if that's what you're going for.

I'm not familiar with 1028, so I can't comment there.

[morticaixavier]

don't forget that the roasted barley and chocolate malts will give a significant perceived bitterness in their own right. I'm not crazy about roasty beers with high hop bitterness because they tend to clash a bit. if you intend to lay this beer down for a good long while then it makes sense to over bitter it some as it will fade with age. But in that case the late hops will have faded almost completely as well.

That said, brew it, drink it, decide if you want to change it.

[HoosierBrew]

Personally, I'd mash quite a bit lower. Like 149F for at least 90 minutes. A beer that big can't help but have a ton of malt character and mouthfeel, even at a low mash temp. A temp like 149 will help you attenuate a few points lower and be left with a little more 'drinkability'/less sweetness, at least as far as RIS is concerned.


EDIT  -  The 1028 is a nice choice for RIS. A good British strain.

[Joe Sr.]

The bourbon will add some sweetness which should offset some of the bitterness.

But you'll also want to be sure the beer attenuates enough that the extra sweetness doesn't make it too sweet.

[danmages]

I'm not sure I think 90 IBU is balanced in that beer. I think anything about 70 IBU is going to be more bitter than balanced.

However, if I understand the title of your thread correctly, you plan on barrel aging the beer and you may want a little more bitterness going into the barrel so it comes out of the barrel with some balance. In that case the 90 IBU may not be out of line.

Based on my research and data from Designing Great Beer by Ray Daniels, the IBU:GU for English barleywine and imperial stouts should be around .90. This puts my beer right in the target range. I have not decided yet, but I might back off to 80-85 IBUs to tilt the balance towards the malt.

If I were doing it, I would sub out some of the MO for sugar.  I think that with MO as your base and mashing at 156 you're going to have a beer that has sufficient body and the sugar should help it attenuate.

I would sub East Kent Goldings for the Fuggles at the end.  But I like Fuggles, too.  I just like EKG more as a finishing hop.  I think it's classically English if that's what you're going for.

I'm not familiar with 1028, so I can't comment there.

I formulate all of my beers at 75% efficiency with the OG at the high end of the style guidelines. I rarely get as high as 75% in my system. I take a gravity reading from the pot right before boil to get the actual OG reading and adjust the hops and adjuncts appropriately. It is easier to add or adjust than to take out. On higher gravity beers like this, I might add some table sugar to bring the gravity back up and to help with attenuation.

While yes, I like EKGs as well, I prefer fuggles as an aroma hop for stouts and porters. I feel the earthy, damp forest aromas work with the style.

don't forget that the roasted barley and chocolate malts will give a significant perceived bitterness in their own right. I'm not crazy about roasty beers with high hop bitterness because they tend to clash a bit. if you intend to lay this beer down for a good long while then it makes sense to over bitter it some as it will fade with age. But in that case the late hops will have faded almost completely as well.

That said, brew it, drink it, decide if you want to change it.

Right. I plan on 3 weeks in the primary for this beer followed by 1-2 weeks in the barrel and then back to the carboy for 3-4 months of aging. I hope to have this beer ready by April.

[reverseapachemaster]

Based on my research and data from Designing Great Beer by Ray Daniels, the IBU:GU for English barleywine and imperial stouts should be around .90. This puts my beer right in the target range. I have not decided yet, but I might back off to 80-85 IBUs to tilt the balance towards the malt.

That might have been en vogue when DGB was written in the 90s but if you take a look at your favorite imperial stouts today they are often less bitter. That is particularly true where 90s recipes had a lot of crystal malt adding sweetness to the beer and you needed extra bitterness to balance it. Even if you look at Stone's recipes, and they are not afraid of some IBUs, the bitterness has come down over the past five years or so as people prefer more malt--but less crystal malt--in their imperial stouts. It's not uncommon to find commercial imperial stouts in the 45-50 IBU range anymore. Even BCBS, which is bourbon barrel aged, is only 60 IBUs. I'm not saying your 90 IBU recipe will be undrinkable but if you have some commercial beers in mind you should take a look at the brewer's specs on the beer and see what the IBU range is.