Author Topic: PH calibration and solutions  (Read 1253 times)

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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PH calibration and solutions
« on: October 23, 2014, 02:44:18 PM »
Ok I know there are people way more knowledgeable than I regarding PH meters, solutions and calibration....so here's the questions?

1. significant difference using calibration solutions 4.01 vs 4.00 and 7.01 vs 7.00 solutions- considering the Hanna's use 4.01 and 7.01 2 point calibration?

2. for a two point manual calibration, is there any benefit or detriment to using 10.0 in addition to the 4.01 and 7.00? i also have meters with auto calibration and are only looking for calibration solutions 4.01 and 7.00(or 7.01) - not sure you could or should also just check 10.0 with the auto's.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 04:58:21 PM »
I use the 4.01 and 7.01 as that spans the range of pH in my brewing, ex elf for some sours and ciders.

If one were checking a caustic solution, or using lime to soften water, then having tha 10 for calibration would be great.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 05:05:43 PM »
I use the 4.01 and 7.01 as that spans the range of pH in my brewing, ex elf for some sours and ciders.

If one were checking a caustic solution, or using lime to soften water, then having tha 10 for calibration would be great.

makes sense. i wasn't sure or knowledgeable on if 3 points of calibration made for more accurate readings vs. 2 point - sounds like it doesn't.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

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Offline mchrispen

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2014, 05:34:32 PM »
I use the three point calibration, just because it is recommended... and I use the recommended branded test solutions.


I have noticed that the ATC component stabilizes the reading more quickly after the 3 point... as opposed to the 2 point. May not make any practical difference in brewhouse as I seldom see a pH above 6.


Milwaukee MW102 with ATC.




Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 04:29:34 AM »
I use the 4.01 and 7.01 as that spans the range of pH in my brewing, ex elf for some sours and ciders.

If one were checking a caustic solution, or using lime to soften water, then having tha 10 for calibration would be great.

makes sense. i wasn't sure or knowledgeable on if 3 points of calibration made for more accurate readings vs. 2 point - sounds like it doesn't.
3 would be better. Don't know how it would improve it around  5.
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Offline narvin

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2014, 12:59:13 PM »
I use the three point calibration, just because it is recommended... and I use the recommended branded test solutions.


I have noticed that the ATC component stabilizes the reading more quickly after the 3 point... as opposed to the 2 point. May not make any practical difference in brewhouse as I seldom see a pH above 6.


Milwaukee MW102 with ATC.

How are you doing a 3 point calibration with the MW102?  I have one and the manual says it only supports 2 point calibration.

http://www.milwaukeeinstruments.com/pdf/MW102.pdf
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2014, 03:03:59 PM »
Most of the meters in the "modest" pricing range use a 2-point calibration. You either use 4 & 7 or 7 & 10 calibration solutions.

An important thing to understand is what those adjustment screws are doing. I just posted a quick summary along with a helpful figure on the Bru'n Water facebook site.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brun-Water/464551136933908?ref=bookmarks
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2014, 03:15:49 PM »
Most of the meters in the "modest" pricing range use a 2-point calibration. You either use 4 & 7 or 7 & 10 calibration solutions.

An important thing to understand is what those adjustment screws are doing. I just posted a quick summary along with a helpful figure on the Bru'n Water facebook site.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brun-Water/464551136933908?ref=bookmarks

cool chart. so then since 4 rotates around 7, would it be the same quality of calibration as using 10 -assuming it rotates around 7 and is the same 3 point difference from 7 as 4 is from 7? or is 4 better because the movement around 7 is closer to a brewers PH range?

i do have two meters with auto calibration for 4.01 and 7.01 solutions, and one manual 2 point calibration.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 03:21:00 PM by wort-h.o.g. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline narvin

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2014, 01:07:50 AM »

cool chart. so then since 4 rotates around 7, would it be the same quality of calibration as using 10 -assuming it rotates around 7 and is the same 3 point difference from 7 as 4 is from 7? or is 4 better because the movement around 7 is closer to a brewers PH range?

i do have two meters with auto calibration for 4.01 and 7.01 solutions, and one manual 2 point calibration.

It's doubtful that calibrating at 10 and then measuring near 4 would be as accurate due to inevitable nonlinearity in the probe's response across a large range.  I was wondering if the person using the MW102 was actually doing two sequential 2-point calibrations, with only the second (possibly less accurate) being used.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 01:11:13 AM by narvin »
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Offline mchrispen

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2014, 11:34:55 AM »
Narvin, I assumed the slope allowed the use of all three. I step through from 4 - 7 - 10 solutions. Perhaps it's tossing out the 4, but doesn't affect the reading in the 4 buffer solution.


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Offline mabrungard

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2014, 12:04:01 PM »

It's doubtful that calibrating at 10 and then measuring near 4 would be as accurate due to inevitable nonlinearity in the probe's response across a large range. 

That is what I expect also.
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Offline leejoreilly

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2014, 01:05:52 PM »
Not to hijack the thread (said the hijacker), but how often does everyone actually calibrate their pH meters? Every use? Every few uses? Every few weeks/months? I usually brew about once a month and got a meter (MW101) a couple of months ago; do I need to calibrate every time? Should I try calibrating it every brew session for a while and see whether it needs adjusting or not?

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2014, 02:17:38 PM »
For a new meter and probe, you might be able to get away without calibrating every time. But the take away message is if you want to be sure of the reading, you have to calibrate.
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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2014, 02:19:32 PM »
Not to hijack the thread (said the hijacker), but how often does everyone actually calibrate their pH meters? Every use? Every few uses? Every few weeks/months? I usually brew about once a month and got a meter (MW101) a couple of months ago; do I need to calibrate every time? Should I try calibrating it every brew session for a while and see whether it needs adjusting or not?

I calibrate mine every time.

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Re: PH calibration and solutions
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2014, 02:45:12 PM »
Not to hijack the thread (said the hijacker), but how often does everyone actually calibrate their pH meters? Every use? Every few uses? Every few weeks/months? I usually brew about once a month and got a meter (MW101) a couple of months ago; do I need to calibrate every time? Should I try calibrating it every brew session for a while and see whether it needs adjusting or not?

I calibrate mine every time.

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Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest