Poll

Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?

Yes
9 (22.5%)
No
31 (77.5%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Author Topic: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?  (Read 9002 times)

Offline erockrph

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #75 on: November 03, 2014, 06:08:43 PM »
Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?

I don't think it's displacing batch sparging, I think it's displacing brewing with extract and steeped grains.  It just makes all grain brewing more accessible and gives it a higher "wife acceptance factor".
I think that's an excellent point. BIAB definitely makes it easier for an extract brewer to make the jump to all-grain, especially if you're OK with brewing smaller batch sizes.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #76 on: November 03, 2014, 06:15:01 PM »
Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?

I don't think it's displacing batch sparging, I think it's displacing brewing with extract and steeped grains.  It just makes all grain brewing more accessible and gives it a higher "wife acceptance factor".
I think that's an excellent point. BIAB definitely makes it easier for an extract brewer to make the jump to all-grain, especially if you're OK with brewing smaller batch sizes.

+2. Good points.
Jon H.

Offline blackislandbrewer

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #77 on: November 03, 2014, 11:57:48 PM »
Since I'm teaching new brewers to START with BIAB instead of extract and grains, I agree with the idea of it being a simple way to start. But I keep chuckling inwardly about the "small batch" notion. I teach 5 gallon batches on a propane burner, but why not 500 liters?

http://www.vigoltd.com/Catalogue/Braumeister-brewing-system/Braumeister/500-litre-Braumeister-brewing-system-93053
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #78 on: November 04, 2014, 12:25:44 AM »
I keep chuckling inwardly about the "small batch" notion. I teach 5 gallon batches on a propane burner, but why not 500 liters?

The whole point of the "small batch notion" is that a (relatively) complicated hoist arrangement like that is what's needed to handle the spent grain when you get much over 5 gal. Building a simple MLT is no more complicated or expensive, so those advantages of BIAB don't apply at larger volumes.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #79 on: November 04, 2014, 12:29:08 AM »
[ Building a simple MLT is no more complicated or expensive, so those advantages of BIAB don't apply at larger volumes.


Yup.
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Offline blackislandbrewer

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #80 on: November 04, 2014, 04:56:32 AM »
I keep chuckling inwardly about the "small batch" notion. I teach 5 gallon batches on a propane burner, but why not 500 liters?

The whole point of the "small batch notion" is that a (relatively) complicated hoist arrangement like that is what's needed to handle the spent grain when you get much over 5 gal. Building a simple MLT is no more complicated or expensive, so those advantages of BIAB don't apply at larger volumes.
I keep chuckling inwardly about the "small batch" notion. I teach 5 gallon batches on a propane burner, but why not 500 liters?

The whole point of the "small batch notion" is that a (relatively) complicated hoist arrangement like that is what's needed to handle the spent grain when you get much over 5 gal. Building a simple MLT is no more complicated or expensive, so those advantages of BIAB don't apply at larger volumes.

Except for, of course, the smaller foot print, single vessel, less equipment, less cleaning. Mind you, I'm not giving up my 3-vessel, but the chorus of "for smaller batches" doesn't ring true, especially at the homebrew level. For Sierra Nevada, sure. But writing off BIAB for homebrew-sized batches...nope.
David
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #81 on: November 04, 2014, 05:19:00 AM »
Since I'm teaching new brewers to START with BIAB instead of extract and grains, I agree with the idea of it being a simple way to start. But I keep chuckling inwardly about the "small batch" notion. I teach 5 gallon batches on a propane burner, but why not 500 liters?

http://www.vigoltd.com/Catalogue/Braumeister-brewing-system/Braumeister/500-litre-Braumeister-brewing-system-93053
What I mean by "for small batches" is that for 3 gallon batches or smaller no propane burner is necessary. You can brew on your stovetop using all the same equipment as partial-boil extract batches. For kitchen/apartment brewers, 3 gallon BIAB may be the only reasonable way to brew all-grain.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #82 on: November 04, 2014, 03:29:34 PM »
Since I'm teaching new brewers to START with BIAB instead of extract and grains, I agree with the idea of it being a simple way to start. But I keep chuckling inwardly about the "small batch" notion. I teach 5 gallon batches on a propane burner, but why not 500 liters?

http://www.vigoltd.com/Catalogue/Braumeister-brewing-system/Braumeister/500-litre-Braumeister-brewing-system-93053

I don't think anybody is suggesting that BIAB is effective for small batches because it can't be done at a larger scale but that for batches smaller than five gallons BIAB is easy with a low equipment entry point to all grain brewing. No need to perform a conversion on something into a mash tun, no hoist for a heavy grain bag and no sparge arm. Just a regular arm and a bag. All the heating can readily be done on a generic kitchen stove.

I believe there were commercial brewhouses at least a couple centuries ago somewhere in western Europe that operated essentially the same way as the system you have linked to. So BIAB is not exactly new it's just new-again for us. For larger systems it's usually more efficient to let gravity or a pump pull liquid away from the grain than use some kind of lift to push up all the grain out of wort. Hence the reason why commercial breweries opt not to use these basket systems anymore.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #83 on: November 04, 2014, 03:31:01 PM »
Since I'm teaching new brewers to START with BIAB instead of extract and grains, I agree with the idea of it being a simple way to start. But I keep chuckling inwardly about the "small batch" notion. I teach 5 gallon batches on a propane burner, but why not 500 liters?

http://www.vigoltd.com/Catalogue/Braumeister-brewing-system/Braumeister/500-litre-Braumeister-brewing-system-93053

I don't think anybody is suggesting that BIAB is effective for small batches because it can't be done at a larger scale but that for batches smaller than five gallons BIAB is easy with a low equipment entry point to all grain brewing. No need to perform a conversion on something into a mash tun, no hoist for a heavy grain bag and no sparge arm. Just a regular arm and a bag. All the heating can readily be done on a generic kitchen stove.

I believe there were commercial brewhouses at least a couple centuries ago somewhere in western Europe that operated essentially the same way as the system you have linked to. So BIAB is not exactly new it's just new-again for us. For larger systems it's usually more efficient to let gravity or a pump pull liquid away from the grain than use some kind of lift to push up all the grain out of wort. Hence the reason why commercial breweries opt not to use these basket systems anymore.

+1
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Offline archstanton

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #84 on: November 04, 2014, 03:46:16 PM »


Except for, of course, the smaller foot print, single vessel, less equipment, less cleaning. Mind you, I'm not giving up my 3-vessel, but the chorus of "for smaller batches" doesn't ring true, especially at the homebrew level. For Sierra Nevada, sure. But writing off BIAB for homebrew-sized batches...nope.
[/quote]

"Smaller footprint, single vessel, less equipment,  "  yes,  except of course those are all the same thing. Less cleaning- are you throwing the bag away or do you clean it? The chorus for smaller batches is saying BIAB is the best for smaller batches. Beyond 5 gallon batches the chorus is saying BIAB starts to lose any advantages it had. It absolutely rings true.

Offline 69franx

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #85 on: November 04, 2014, 04:17:04 PM »


Except for, of course, the smaller foot print, single vessel, less equipment, less cleaning. Mind you, I'm not giving up my 3-vessel, but the chorus of "for smaller batches" doesn't ring true, especially at the homebrew level. For Sierra Nevada, sure. But writing off BIAB for homebrew-sized batches...nope.

"Smaller footprint, single vessel, less equipment,  "  yes,  except of course those are all the same thing. Less cleaning- are you throwing the bag away or do you clean it? The chorus for smaller batches is saying BIAB is the best for smaller batches. Beyond 5 gallon batches the chorus is saying BIAB starts to lose any advantages it had. It absolutely rings true.
[/quote]
Exactly. Nobody is saying that BIAB doesn't work with larger scale batches, just that BIAB really does not seem to have the same benefits to the brewer on the larger scale. You can in theory BIAB 1bbl at a time, but not with the same simple pot(no valves, no lifting mechanism, etc) or with the same heat source (kitchen stove top). Its just a matter of diminishing returns
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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #86 on: November 04, 2014, 04:30:40 PM »
Except for, of course, the smaller foot print, single vessel, less equipment, less cleaning. Mind you, I'm not giving up my 3-vessel, but the chorus of "for smaller batches" doesn't ring true, especially at the homebrew level. For Sierra Nevada, sure. But writing off BIAB for homebrew-sized batches...nope.

Well, that hasn't been my experience.  For anything over maybe 3 gal. I find BIAB to be more hassle than using my mash tun.  As to single vessel, sure it you do no sparge. You can do that with a mash tun, too.  If you sparge BIAB, you need 2 pots just like you do for conventional batch sparging.  I appreciate your point if view, but keep in mind that it isn't always the case.
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Offline blackislandbrewer

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #87 on: November 05, 2014, 05:45:21 AM »
Well, that hasn't been my experience.  For anything over maybe 3 gal. I find BIAB to be more hassle than using my mash tun.  As to single vessel, sure it you do no sparge. You can do that with a mash tun, too.  If you sparge BIAB, you need 2 pots just like you do for conventional batch sparging.  I appreciate your point if view, but keep in mind that it isn't always the case.
I'm thinking that I may have stepped into a "continuous sparge vs. batch sparge" kind of hornet's nest. It wasn't my intention, I swear.

The initial question, "Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?", assumes that we're talking about new brewers, no equipment, starting fresh. I "chuckled inwardly" about the choruses of "only for small batches", when it, in my opinion, isn't unreasonable to do larger batches, say 10 gallons, using BIAB. Is attaching a pulley and hoisting a bag that much harder than building a mash tun? In my mind it seems easier. And as for process, not having to learn _any_ sparging seems easier - lift bag and let drain, easy peasy. So, I'll stand by my opinion: even for larger homebrew batches, BIAB could have a lot of appeal to new brewers.

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Offline thatgeekguy

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Re: Will BIAB displace batch sparging as the method of choice for new brewers?
« Reply #88 on: November 14, 2014, 07:15:22 PM »
As a 5+ gallon BIAB'er, I guess I'll 'weigh in' here . The largest dry grain bill I've done was for an IIPA and weighed in at about 19 lb. I don't use a hoist or pulley, but can lift the bag by hand to drain a few minutes before dropping it into a perforated nested bucket arrangement to finish draining. I can drop another bucket on top of that, plunk my fat butt down, and voila!: Instant grain press. I can also use the same bucket setup to batch sparge before pressing by holding back a gallon or so of my total mash water to pour over the bag.

Three buckets are cleaned in about a minute by a quick hose rinse, no other grain mess since all the grain is still in the bag. Cleaning the grain bag takes about two minutes after dumping.

I had originally looked long and hard at building a 3V system, then discovered BIAB. At this point, unless I go beyond 10 gallon batches, I can't see doing anything other than BIAB.
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