Author Topic: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale  (Read 4753 times)

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« on: October 29, 2014, 02:57:46 PM »
Thinking of putting a twist on the old hard cider recipe and adding 1.5 gal of maris otter wort to 4 gal of apple cider, and fermenting it with WLP775 english cider ale.

any thoughts or experience by anyone in this area?
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
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O'Fest

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2014, 03:06:10 PM »
I have lots of experience with apple ale where it's 2/3 malt-based sugars and 1/3 apple juice, but not with a cider with just a little malt.  Probably will turn out great.  See my experience with my apple ale here:

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=71478&p=662452&hilit=harvest+apple#p662452

I have 6 gallons of this in primary fermentation right now.

One piece of advice: Don't rush it.  Cider takes a lot longer to ferment than beer does.  Like, often 4 to 6 weeks.  Just in case you didn't know.

Personally I've not used the English cider yeast, probably because it gets mediocre reviews.  I love my Cote des Blancs yeast.  I also quite enjoy good ole US-05 for ciders, turns out great.  Also I find that Nottingham ale yeast adds a certain peachy flavor that is kind of interesting.  I'm running lots of yeast experiments with 6 gallons of cider this year and these are the results so far.  Still love that Cote des Blancs the best though... or maybe US-05?  It's between those two at the moment.
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2014, 03:35:03 PM »
I have lots of experience with apple ale where it's 2/3 malt-based sugars and 1/3 apple juice, but not with a cider with just a little malt.  Probably will turn out great.  See my experience with my apple ale here:

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=71478&p=662452&hilit=harvest+apple#p662452

I have 6 gallons of this in primary fermentation right now.

One piece of advice: Don't rush it.  Cider takes a lot longer to ferment than beer does.  Like, often 4 to 6 weeks.  Just in case you didn't know.

Personally I've not used the English cider yeast, probably because it gets mediocre reviews.  I love my Cote des Blancs yeast.  I also quite enjoy good ole US-05 for ciders, turns out great.  Also I find that Nottingham ale yeast adds a certain peachy flavor that is kind of interesting.  I'm running lots of yeast experiments with 6 gallons of cider this year and these are the results so far.  Still love that Cote des Blancs the best though... or maybe US-05?  It's between those two at the moment.

so ive only done my fresh apple cider fermented with notti and wlp775. i agree on the notti flavor. i will say wlp775 results are dry and full of the apple flavor- wroth a shot sometime.

so you always use apple juice vs. cider? for me the opposite, but as i said always hard cider vs making a combo malt cider/apple ale.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2014, 04:01:47 PM »
In my view, apple juice = juice from apples... and NOT from concentrate.

If you are making an Americanized distinction between apple "juice" that is made from concentrate with added sugars and preservatives, versus American apple "sweet cider" that is brown with junk on the bottom but not hard cider, then allow me to clarify that I never ever use "juice" from concentrate, but rather I only use real fresh pressed "sweet cider" from a local orchard or that I juiced from real apples at home.

In all other nations besides the USA, "cider" infers that the juice has been fermented.  Only Americans call this "hard cider".  To me, "cider" is talking about the hard fermented beverage.

Cheers.
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2014, 04:53:33 PM »
In my view, apple juice = juice from apples... and NOT from concentrate.

If you are making an Americanized distinction between apple "juice" that is made from concentrate with added sugars and preservatives, versus American apple "sweet cider" that is brown with junk on the bottom but not hard cider, then allow me to clarify that I never ever use "juice" from concentrate, but rather I only use real fresh pressed "sweet cider" from a local orchard or that I juiced from real apples at home.

In all other nations besides the USA, "cider" infers that the juice has been fermented.  Only Americans call this "hard cider".  To me, "cider" is talking about the hard fermented beverage.

Cheers.

so think we are saying the same thing. i get my fresh cider (no preservatives) from my local orchard this time of year.  i  figured you used fresh apple juice from apples you pressed- your clarification and definitions make sense, thanks.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2014, 05:07:20 PM »
I have lots of experience with apple ale where it's 2/3 malt-based sugars and 1/3 apple juice, but not with a cider with just a little malt.  Probably will turn out great.  See my experience with my apple ale here:

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=71478&p=662452&hilit=harvest+apple#p662452

I have 6 gallons of this in primary fermentation right now.

One piece of advice: Don't rush it.  Cider takes a lot longer to ferment than beer does.  Like, often 4 to 6 weeks.  Just in case you didn't know.

Personally I've not used the English cider yeast, probably because it gets mediocre reviews.  I love my Cote des Blancs yeast.  I also quite enjoy good ole US-05 for ciders, turns out great.  Also I find that Nottingham ale yeast adds a certain peachy flavor that is kind of interesting.  I'm running lots of yeast experiments with 6 gallons of cider this year and these are the results so far.  Still love that Cote des Blancs the best though... or maybe US-05?  It's between those two at the moment.

DM-what do you think about hopping or not hopping the maris and a little melanoiden for 1.5 gal of wort i will be adding to the 4 gal of juice?
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline mchrispen

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2014, 07:37:08 PM »
I have done just what you are describing, only at 50/50 wort to cider. No access to apples here, at least good ones - so went with pasteurized cider from Costco.


I did a 2 gallon wort to 1.065, Maris Otter with a touch of honey malt (5%), mashed at 156, about 20 IBUs of Cascades at 30 and 5 minutes. Used Nottingham at 66F temps. Added the 2 gallons of cider after high krausen. Serious blow off.. and I think it knocked down the hop aroma a bit. I did mix a bit of pectic enzyme in the chilled wort at pitching time. Wish I had a picture - was really a beautiful product (graf?) The malt added just enough body to let this carry a nice lacy head.


I really want to do this again with some caramelized honey. Maybe caramelized with some boiled down cider syrup as well to up the apple aroma and flavor.

Matt Chrispen
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Blogging from the garage @ accidentalis.com
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2014, 07:38:40 PM »
Seems like a waste of perfectly good hops to me.  I hate hopped ciders and meads.  Personal preference.  But my impression of what you are trying to make is about 90% cider with just a little 10% additional of malt.  If that's the case, and you really just want this to be a cider with a little malt flavor, then you really don't need any hops.  But if that's NOT the case, and you want this to be more of a graff or apple ale, then I think you should add a lot more malt, as 1.5 lbs isn't going to do a whole lot for you, and neither will a small addition of hops to the malted portion.

It's your brew.  It's up to you and your own preferences.  If you like hops and hopped cider, then go for it.  But, you might not even be able to taste the hops anyway.  If so, then why bother.
Dave

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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2014, 08:36:37 PM »
Seems like a waste of perfectly good hops to me.  I hate hopped ciders and meads.  Personal preference.  But my impression of what you are trying to make is about 90% cider with just a little 10% additional of malt.  If that's the case, and you really just want this to be a cider with a little malt flavor, then you really don't need any hops.  But if that's NOT the case, and you want this to be more of a graff or apple ale, then I think you should add a lot more malt, as 1.5 lbs isn't going to do a whole lot for you, and neither will a small addition of hops to the malted portion.

It's your brew.  It's up to you and your own preferences.  If you like hops and hopped cider, then go for it.  But, you might not even be able to taste the hops anyway.  If so, then why bother.

cool understood on the hops-just curious. yeah i had said 1.5gallons of wort,not lbs. making the recipe im upping it to 2.5gal wort to 3 gal cider....here's what i was thinking:

4 lbs 8.0 oz   maris otter floor malted-warminster (4.5 SRM)   Grain   1   86.7 %
8.0 oz          Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)                   Grain   2   9.6 %
3.0 oz          Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM)                                   Grain   3   3.7 %
0.30 oz          Tettnang [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min                    Hop   4   10.3 IBUs
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 09:03:23 PM by wort-h.o.g. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2014, 09:19:44 PM »
Okay, that looks pretty good.  Sorry I messed up on the pounds versus gallons.  Yeah... I still think you should either ditch the hops, or else use 4 or 5 times as much.  Decide whether you want hops in there or not.  A handful of IBUs in there isn't going to be worth much.  Go one way or the other.
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2014, 09:24:38 PM »

Okay, that looks pretty good.  Sorry I messed up on the pounds versus gallons.  Yeah... I still think you should either ditch the hops, or else use 4 or 5 times as much.  Decide whether you want hops in there or not.  A handful of IBUs in there isn't going to be worth much.  Go one way or the other.

Think I will go without. Thanks again for the info- pumped to try something new.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2014, 12:39:09 AM »
Got ahold of the orchard down the road from me. They are pressing me 5 gallons fresh tomorrow- 3 gal for the batch and 2 just to drink....nothing better. I like it warmed with a cinnamon stick and Jameson on a cold day, and we have a few coming our way over the next week.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline erockrph

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2014, 12:55:42 AM »
Okay, that looks pretty good.  Sorry I messed up on the pounds versus gallons.  Yeah... I still think you should either ditch the hops, or else use 4 or 5 times as much.  Decide whether you want hops in there or not.  A handful of IBUs in there isn't going to be worth much.  Go one way or the other.
+1 - I'd either lean the cider route and use acid/tannins for balance, or go the beer route and use hops.
Eric B.

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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2014, 01:36:44 AM »
Okay, that looks pretty good.  Sorry I messed up on the pounds versus gallons.  Yeah... I still think you should either ditch the hops, or else use 4 or 5 times as much.  Decide whether you want hops in there or not.  A handful of IBUs in there isn't going to be worth much.  Go one way or the other.
+1 - I'd either lean the cider route and use acid/tannins for balance, or go the beer route and use hops.

yep off the hops
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline 69franx

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Re: Making a Maris Malt Apple Cider Ale
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2014, 02:55:55 AM »
Got ahold of the orchard down the road from me. They are pressing me 5 gallons fresh tomorrow- 3 gal for the batch and 2 just to drink....nothing better. I like it warmed with a cinnamon stick and Jameson on a cold day, and we have a few coming our way over the next week.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
So with something like this, you asked them for fresh pressed, dont do anything to it, dont add anything to it, etc? Or will it be pasteurized, sulfited, etc? I have only made one cider and it did not turn out as hoped or expected
Frank L.
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