Author Topic: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA  (Read 2200 times)

Offline mblanks2

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Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« on: November 02, 2014, 09:56:04 PM »
I have a recipe for an big IIPA that I want to age. The recipe is just FWH bitterness and a little 10 minute flavor addition for a calculated 110 IBU's. Knowing that no aroma will be maintained I won't waste my time or hops but I would like to add a little more dimension by adding a mild smoke flavor to the background of this beer and am curious what anyone thinks about a percentage of smoke malt.
Current grain bill is 84% 2-row, 7% Flaked Wheat, 4.7% Caramel malt, and 4.7% Victory.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2014, 12:54:14 PM »
Smoke and hops usually don't go well together. If you really want to do this, then I would say don't use much rauchmalt and use spicy hops. The reason for the spicy hops is that smoke is a phenolic, as are most spicy flavors. A Grodziskie made with smoked wheat malt and lots of spicy Saaz hops worked for me. You might try Sterling, and American hop with Saaz character and higher AA and oils.

Hop flavor and aroma fade quickly, are you aging to get rid of those flavors that make an IIPA? Rauchbier is fine for a good while, but is not know for aging.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2014, 02:54:24 PM »
IIPA's aren't meant for aging. I'd just target an American Barleywine to start.

As far as the smoke malt goes, personally I'm not a big fan except at really low levels in a porter. But even despite my prejudice, I can't think of a worse style to add rauchmalz to than IIPA.

My suggestion would be to brew it as an American Barleywine, and maybe use oak instead of smoke if you want a little extra complexity. That really seems like a scenario that will stand up to aging a lot better than a Rauch IIPA.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2014, 02:55:42 PM »
IIPA's aren't meant for aging. I'd just target an American Barleywine to start.

As far as the smoke malt goes, personally I'm not a big fan except at really low levels in a porter. But even despite my prejudice, I can't think of a worse style to add rauchmalz to than IIPA.

My suggestion would be to brew it as an American Barleywine, and maybe use oak instead of smoke if you want a little extra complexity. That really seems like a scenario that will stand up to aging a lot better than a Rauch IIPA.

+1 to this. I can't see any amount of smoke marrying well with a IIPA and IIPA age very poorly and are best when fresh. A smoked barleywine, OTOH, could be interesting.

Offline mblanks2

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2014, 03:37:28 PM »
Well, it looks like I might need to plan on a barley wine or the like. Thanks for the input.

Offline kmccaf

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2014, 03:40:03 PM »
IIPA's aren't meant for aging. I'd just target an American Barleywine to start.

As far as the smoke malt goes, personally I'm not a big fan except at really low levels in a porter. But even despite my prejudice, I can't think of a worse style to add rauchmalz to than IIPA.

My suggestion would be to brew it as an American Barleywine, and maybe use oak instead of smoke if you want a little extra complexity. That really seems like a scenario that will stand up to aging a lot better than a Rauch IIPA.

+1 to this. I can't see any amount of smoke marrying well with a IIPA and IIPA age very poorly and are best when fresh. A smoked barleywine, OTOH, could be interesting.

I've thought about a smoked barleywine before, and Denny talked me out of it some years ago on a different forum. I think he was right to do so. The big malty sherry like notes just did not sound like a match for smoke. I just can't see the flavors of smoked malt and a barleywine fitting together. OTOH, it is your beer, and their is only one way to find out if you like it. I do love me a gratzer.
Kyle M.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2014, 03:43:20 PM »
I think a smoked barley wine is potentially doable, worth the risk. Smoked IIPA not at all.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2014, 03:48:50 PM »
I think a smoked barley wine is potentially doable, worth the risk. Smoked IIPA not at all.

+1.  I could see a smoked barleywine being interesting, if you limit the rauch.  I actually like the idea better in an English barleywine/Old Ale, where hop presence is minimal.  In an IPA/IIPA - never. 
Jon H.

Offline mblanks2

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2014, 03:51:10 PM »
I think a smoked barley wine is potentially doable, worth the risk. Smoked IIPA not at all.

+1.  I could see a smoked barleywine being interesting, if you limit the rauch.  I actually like the idea better in an English barleywine/Old Ale, where hop presence is minimal.  In an IPA/IIPA - never.

Maybe I'll do some research on an old ale then. Something that I can smoke a little and allow to age too. Does that sound doable?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2014, 03:58:46 PM »
I think a smoked barley wine is potentially doable, worth the risk. Smoked IIPA not at all.

+1.  I could see a smoked barleywine being interesting, if you limit the rauch.  I actually like the idea better in an English barleywine/Old Ale, where hop presence is minimal.  In an IPA/IIPA - never.

Maybe I'll do some research on an old ale then. Something that I can smoke a little and allow to age too. Does that sound doable?

Yeah, it might be one to either make a small batch of first time around, or use a pretty small amount of smoked malt and then adjust upward the next time.
Jon H.

Offline mblanks2

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2014, 04:16:57 PM »
Thanks for all the replys and information.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2014, 04:21:34 PM »
There are some smoked IPAs with some serious smoke character to them. I've had a couple and they are pretty good. I am not sure how much smoked malt is used but I would guess around 20%.

It doesn't sound like you are interested in an IPA or IIPA, more a barleywine that you can put some smoke flavor in. I wouldn't do too much but you also have to account for some fading with age. So the question of how much to use depends on how smoky you want the beer and how long you plan on aging it.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2014, 04:31:44 PM »
A friend in the club made a pretty tasty smoked American Barleywine. Easy on the smoke is the key.
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Offline mblanks2

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2014, 06:09:23 PM »
Ok, so here's the story behind all this. I brewed an IIPA about 10 months ago. OG was 1.095 and bitterness at 110, I believe. I utilize a stainless hop spider. With the grain bill as large as it was I was only able to do a 5.5 gallon batch in my mash tun. I put my spider on the bottom of my brew kettle to do a FWH and forgot to take it off the bottom when the wort reached a good level.
Meanwhile hop dust from the pellets make their way through the mesh and are trapped underneath. They scorch during the full boil and I didn't notice until chilled and cleaning up. So, the initial tasting of this beer was horrible but I decided that I would just store them and see what happened. After about 8 months of bottle condition I and few friends decided to chill and try a few. Surficeit to say, they are absolutely wonderful. I've given a few to some of my "beer snob" friends and have had replies such as greatest beer they've ever had, awesome, unbelievable complexity, better than many of the commercial beers available, etc.
Now, with all that said I would like to reproduce it without scorching my hops to the bottom of my kettle. :-[

Offline 69franx

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Re: Smoke Malt % in a IIPA
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2014, 04:54:19 PM »
Ok, so here's the story behind all this. I brewed an IIPA about 10 months ago. OG was 1.095 and bitterness at 110, I believe. I utilize a stainless hop spider. With the grain bill as large as it was I was only able to do a 5.5 gallon batch in my mash tun. I put my spider on the bottom of my brew kettle to do a FWH and forgot to take it off the bottom when the wort reached a good level.
Meanwhile hop dust from the pellets make their way through the mesh and are trapped underneath. They scorch during the full boil and I didn't notice until chilled and cleaning up. So, the initial tasting of this beer was horrible but I decided that I would just store them and see what happened. After about 8 months of bottle condition I and few friends decided to chill and try a few. Surficeit to say, they are absolutely wonderful. I've given a few to some of my "beer snob" friends and have had replies such as greatest beer they've ever had, awesome, unbelievable complexity, better than many of the commercial beers available, etc.
Now, with all that said I would like to reproduce it without scorching my hops to the bottom of my kettle. :-[
Now that's a great story worthy of being in your bio on here as far as brewing error that turned out great. I can also see why you would like to recreate the brew. Good luck!
Frank L.
Fermenting:
Conditioning:
In keg:
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In the works: Hopefully brewing 10 gallons of Pilsner tomorrow for a family reunion in July, then back to IPA and  a barleywine to age