Author Topic: Nov 2014 Zymurgy - Napolean Complex Recipe  (Read 925 times)

Offline neomoose

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Nov 2014 Zymurgy - Napolean Complex Recipe
« on: November 03, 2014, 03:39:00 PM »
The recipe listed for the light Berliner Weiss in Zymurgy has two different yeast pitches. One of WLP630 Berliner Blend with lactobacillus in it and another one of Wyeast 1007 German Ale.

Pitching is WLP630 for 7-10 days then the Wyeast 1007.

This seems backwards to me, don't you want to add your souring agent last?

Offline andy

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Re: Nov 2014 Zymurgy - Napolean Complex Recipe
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2014, 04:01:49 PM »
Hi there,

I'm afraid I don't really have a reason for why we added the lacto first. I think the thought of allowing the lacto to have dibs on taking hold seems reasonable. Historically wouldn't the process have been to let the wort cool slowly over night, allowing the bacteria to develop? Maybe that's why we thought to use that first.

We were really pleased on how it turned out, but feel free to switch it up if you'd like.

Andy

Offline neomoose

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Re: Nov 2014 Zymurgy - Napolean Complex Recipe
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2014, 04:10:08 PM »
That was where I got curious. I always believed you let the ale yeast do its thing and eat everything it could then you let the sour yeast go to work on what is left.

Are you attached to the original recipe or have you simply already brewed it and been happy with the results?

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Nov 2014 Zymurgy - Napolean Complex Recipe
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2014, 04:14:55 PM »
because lacto eat more or less the same sugars as sach yeast you want to give them a headstart so they can sour the beer before the sach yeast use up all the sugars. so unlike brett, pedio, etc that eat things the sach yeast will not lacto goes in first. a lot of folks even do an overnight (or longer) sour mash to get the lacto working before the boil.
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Nov 2014 Zymurgy - Napolean Complex Recipe
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2014, 05:55:49 PM »
because lacto eat more or less the same sugars as sach yeast you want to give them a headstart so they can sour the beer before the sach yeast use up all the sugars. so unlike brett, pedio, etc that eat things the sach yeast will not lacto goes in first.

Yes, you won't get enough lacto sourness if you pitch the sacch yeast first.
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Offline chezteth

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Re: Nov 2014 Zymurgy - Napolean Complex Recipe
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2014, 06:07:01 PM »
The first time I made a Berliner Weiss I added the lacto after the sach did it's thing. It ended up mildly sour. I definitely wished it was more sour. I just started one a couple weeks ago and pitched the lacto and sach at the same time. We'll see how it turns out.

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Offline Jimmy K

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Re: Nov 2014 Zymurgy - Napolean Complex Recipe
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2014, 06:14:36 PM »
I had a lacto 2nd Berliner once and it was ... watery wheat beer.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Nov 2014 Zymurgy - Napolean Complex Recipe
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2014, 12:20:32 AM »
+1 to pitching a healthy, large lacto starter first and keeping it warm at 100F for about 5 days or so before letting it cool and pitching ale yeast (WY 1007).  Even with this procedure, my berliners still take a few mos or so to reach a proper acidity level that I prefer. 

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Nov 2014 Zymurgy - Napolean Complex Recipe
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2014, 12:52:00 AM »
+1 to pitching a healthy, large lacto starter first and keeping it warm at 100F for about 5 days or so before letting it cool and pitching ale yeast (WY 1007).  Even with this procedure, my berliners still take a few mos or so to reach a proper acidity level that I prefer.

This! And when you pitch the sac yeast do it at roaring full krausen. In my limited experience the sac yeast may struggle to fully attenuate the beer. Thats why I skip berliners and go for farmhouse because brett will plow it down plenty low. A great berliner is a pretty good trick.