Author Topic: Artificial Oxygenation  (Read 1698 times)

Offline vinfriend

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Artificial Oxygenation
« on: November 03, 2014, 10:12:25 PM »
Hello,
I have been brewing for a couple of years and came across an article, unrelated to beer making, which touched on an issue we all deal with - oxygenation of wort before pitching the yeast.  The article was about keeping fish aquariums oxygenated by means other than bubblers and infusers and referenced using oxygenation tablets.  Has anybody considered using something like this to oxygenate wort - would obviously need something deemed "food grade".

Please, no flame throwers on account of an innocent question.

Thanks.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2014, 10:21:03 PM »
I'm not so familiar with fish tanks, but an oxygenation tablet sounds like something that's designed for a continuous oxygenation application.

I don't want to continuously oxygenate my wort, simply provide enough oxygen at the outset for the yeast to do their thing.
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Offline vinfriend

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2014, 10:27:25 PM »
The article indicated that the tablets were a temporary replacement for bubblers or could be used when transporting the fish.  So, you would need to keep adding tablets to the tank as the oxygen was metabolized by the fish.  There was also some feedback on the article that indicated that this form of oxygenation not necessarily good for the fish - not sure why or why not.
Twenty eight 5 Gallon Batches to date:
- Belgian Double
- Belgian Quad
- IIPA - 2nd Place Ribbon
- American IPA
- Marzen - 3rd Place Ribbon
- Pre-prohibition Lager
- Trappist Pater
- Czech Pilsen
- Belgian Blonde
- Belgian Wheat
- Apple Cider

Offline vinfriend

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2014, 10:40:23 PM »
I just chased down the ingredients for one of the brands of oxygenation tablets and the active ingredient is Potassium Chlorate - probably not a good chemical to ingest. 

Seems that a good chemical engineer could synthesize something more benign.
Twenty eight 5 Gallon Batches to date:
- Belgian Double
- Belgian Quad
- IIPA - 2nd Place Ribbon
- American IPA
- Marzen - 3rd Place Ribbon
- Pre-prohibition Lager
- Trappist Pater
- Czech Pilsen
- Belgian Blonde
- Belgian Wheat
- Apple Cider

Offline Stevie

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2014, 10:54:45 PM »
Don't worry about flaming here. It is rare.

I've heard of some using olive oil in place of oxygen. Never tried it and I question its value.

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2014, 11:08:23 PM »
I tried olive oil once or twice in my starters.  I have no idea if it did anything.

I don't think it hurt anything, but I'll stick to yeast nutrients and a stir plate.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2014, 11:27:33 PM »
Don't worry about flaming here. It is rare.

I've heard of some using olive oil in place of oxygen. Never tried it and I question its value.

olive oil huh? hows that work (or supposed to work)?
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Offline narcout

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2014, 11:34:41 PM »
Don't worry about flaming here. It is rare.

I've heard of some using olive oil in place of oxygen. Never tried it and I question its value.

olive oil huh? hows that work (or supposed to work)?

New Belgium Brewing experimented with it quite a bit (I believe someone over there wrote a thesis on it). 

I think the full text is available online if you want to check it out.
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Offline Stevie

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2014, 11:38:15 PM »
Something about providing the lipids the yeast needs for budding versus having the yeast make it with the help of oxygen.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2014, 12:16:37 AM »
for a 5 gallon batch it is just a drop. It was all the rage when it first was announced and lots of people tried it. I tried it in a starter a few times. Then it came out that New Belgium discovered they had shelf life issues from the experimentation and they abandoned it.

FWIW Budweiser experimented with cinnamon in the mash to prevent oxidation years ago. Cinnamon is a power anti-oxidant and the amount used was small and the flavors and aromas all boiled out leaving no hint of its presence. But apparently Bud didn't want people to find out there was cinnamon in the beer and abandoned it.

Sorry for the off topic foray. ;)

Offline kramerog

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2014, 01:57:01 AM »
2 KClO3(s) → 3 O2(g) + 2 KCl(s) (per Wikipedia) is the reaction gone to completion.  However, based on Wikipedia it sounds like the reaction would evolve oxygen over time not just when you need it. Also lots of bad things can happen like using pure oxygen.

Offline kramerog

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2014, 01:59:16 AM »

FWIW Budweiser experimented with cinnamon in the mash to prevent oxidation years ago. Cinnamon is a power anti-oxidant and the amount used was small and the flavors and aromas all boiled out leaving no hint of its presence. But apparently Bud didn't want people to find out there was cinnamon in the beer and abandoned it.

Sorry for the off topic foray. ;)

I think one of the Papazian's books says to use cinnamon.  I always wondered where the cinnamon thing came from.  Is the cinnamon for hot side aeration or for other oxidation purposes?

Offline vinfriend

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2014, 04:28:18 AM »
Hydrogen peroxide releases oxygen too, but "O" not "O2".  Can yeast digest O? 
Twenty eight 5 Gallon Batches to date:
- Belgian Double
- Belgian Quad
- IIPA - 2nd Place Ribbon
- American IPA
- Marzen - 3rd Place Ribbon
- Pre-prohibition Lager
- Trappist Pater
- Czech Pilsen
- Belgian Blonde
- Belgian Wheat
- Apple Cider

Offline erockrph

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2014, 05:24:41 AM »
Hydrogen peroxide releases oxygen too, but "O" not "O2".  Can yeast digest O?
Not exactly, but O· can probably digest yeast pretty well...

2 KClO3(s) → 3 O2(g) + 2 KCl(s) (per Wikipedia) is the reaction gone to completion.  However, based on Wikipedia it sounds like the reaction would evolve oxygen over time not just when you need it. Also lots of bad things can happen like using pure oxygen.
Yeah, K Chlorate sounds like nasty stuff to deal with. But if you can manage it safely then it may be ok for starters or maybe something like a high gravity mead, where you're introducing oxygen over an extended period of time at the beginning of fermentation.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Artificial Oxygenation
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2014, 11:54:58 AM »
It's times like this when I think to myself WWDD?

probably use a mix stir and tell every one that he had great results and it's cheap and easy. ;)

Anyway, that would be my method if I was looking for something aside from an aquarium set up. I would not look for an "artificial" method of aeration. I would consider experimenting with the olive oil method though. There were homebrewers experimenting with it who reported good results "back in the day".