Author Topic: diacetyl in a lite american lager  (Read 1421 times)

Offline factory

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diacetyl in a lite american lager
« on: November 03, 2014, 11:44:59 PM »
Recipe: 5.5 lbs 2 row
1.5 lbs flaked rice
.5 oz hallertau @ 60
.5 oz hallertau @ 20

mashed 1.5 qts/lb at 150F for 90 minutes

boiled 90 minutes down to 1.039 sg. cooled to 50F. pitched 3L stirred starter of WLP840. fermented at 50F until 1.015 and raised temp for diacetyl rest to 65F.  Got to 1.010 (same as forced ferment test) and let it stay there for an extra 4 days.  slowly cooled to 34F (5F per day). I know, this was unnecessary, but I did it anyway.  Been lagering for 2 weeks.  Tastes like buttered popcorn.

Any suggestions?

Offline majorvices

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2014, 12:19:02 AM »
You could try krausening - take a small pitch of actively fermenting beer and add it to the keg/fermentor/whatever. I've had it work for me in the past. The yeast scrub the diacetyl.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2014, 12:35:20 AM »
You could try krausening - take a small pitch of actively fermenting beer and add it to the keg/fermentor/whatever. I've had it work for me in the past. The yeast scrub the diacetyl.

+1 Safale us-05 has done the trick for me in the past. and some extended lagering should clean it up after that.

when i first started making lagers i had this issue with a few batches-drove me nuts. pitching around 47F and keeping it under or around 50F max for a few days really helped me.
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Online dmtaylor

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2014, 12:47:50 AM »
Time is your friend.  Wait another 7 to 10 days and I can almost guarantee you with about 90% certainty that your diacetyl will be gone.  If not then warm it back up again for a second diacetyl rest and keep it there a week.  Diacetyl lasts for roughly 3 weeks in my experience.  Since you've only lagered for 2 then it's not done yet.
Dave

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2014, 01:06:01 AM »

Time is your friend.  Wait another 7 to 10 days and I can almost guarantee you with about 90% certainty that your diacetyl will be gone.  If not then warm it back up again for a second diacetyl rest and keep it there a week.  Diacetyl lasts for roughly 3 weeks in my experience.  Since you've only lagered for 2 then it's not done yet.

This is not my experience. While the diacetyl may fade significantly it will never go away unless you have active yeast metabolizing it.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2014, 01:10:51 AM »

Time is your friend.  Wait another 7 to 10 days and I can almost guarantee you with about 90% certainty that your diacetyl will be gone.  If not then warm it back up again for a second diacetyl rest and keep it there a week.  Diacetyl lasts for roughly 3 weeks in my experience.  Since you've only lagered for 2 then it's not done yet.

This is not my experience. While the diacetyl may fade significantly it will never go away unless you have active yeast metabolizing it.

Same with me. I will admit I have a hyper sensitivity with diacetyl, but if the concentration is great enough, lagering alone wouldn't do the trick for me. Fortunately learning better lager pitch and fermentation temps with gallon starters did away with the problem for me.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Online dmtaylor

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2014, 01:17:49 AM »
Well, prolong your D rest then.  It might help that I'm lazy and often leave the temp up in the 60s for a full week or even 2 before bottling, and that I bottle condition rather than keg.  YMMV
Dave

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2014, 11:57:02 AM »
When I brew lagers I start out cold and only leave it cold for about 3-4 days and then start slowly ramping it up until I'm at 58 till mostly finished. Then I let it sit a few days at 62 before crashing. I don't ever have diacetyl using that method.

Offline factory

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2014, 02:01:47 PM »
This is only my third lager attempt, so I need to figure out my fermentation profile.  I'll try it cold (under 50F) for the next one with an extended d-rest.  If that doesn't work, I'll try the slow ramp-up.  Something will work I'm sure.  Also, I had a friend come over and try the beer last night.  He can't taste the diacetyl, so maybe I'm just hyper-sensitive to it.  I'm making a starter of US-05 today, so I'll pitch that at hi-krausen after I warm the beer back up, and let the yeasties have at it.

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2014, 02:55:42 PM »
Krausening certainly won't hurt and might help.

However I would still argue that warmth and time are all you really need, with or without krausening.
Dave

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2014, 03:20:40 PM »
Krausening certainly won't hurt and might help.

However I would still argue that warmth and time are all you really need, with or without krausening.

My experience is the yeast have to be active to metabolize the diacetyl. Surprised that is has worked for you just to leave the beer warm after fermentation has finished. But stranger things have happened.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2014, 03:39:07 PM »
Krausening certainly won't hurt and might help.

However I would still argue that warmth and time are all you really need, with or without krausening.

My experience is the yeast have to be active to metabolize the diacetyl. Surprised that is has worked for you just to leave the beer warm after fermentation has finished. But stranger things have happened.

so since he bottles vs co2 carb in a keg, isnt he getting yeast metabolizing priming sugar and therefore metabolizing any diacetyl? just a thought.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Offline majorvices

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2014, 03:56:10 PM »
i guess it is possible but I doubt it is enough. Very little activity during carbonation. But I'm not certain.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2014, 03:57:19 PM »
i guess it is possible but I doubt it is enough. Very little activity during carbonation. But I'm not certain.

just struck me as possible-perhaps someone might have more experience with this and have the answer.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Offline denny

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Re: diacetyl in a lite american lager
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2014, 06:20:50 PM »
Krausening certainly won't hurt and might help.

However I would still argue that warmth and time are all you really need, with or without krausening.

My experience is the yeast have to be active to metabolize the diacetyl. Surprised that is has worked for you just to leave the beer warm after fermentation has finished. But stranger things have happened.

so since he bottles vs co2 carb in a keg, isnt he getting yeast metabolizing priming sugar and therefore metabolizing any diacetyl? just a thought.

Not nearly enough, though.  When I've krausened, I've needed 1-2 qt. actively fermenting for a 5 gal. batch.
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