Author Topic: IPA Water profile  (Read 2941 times)

Offline BrodyR

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 512
  • Philadelphia, PA
    • View Profile
IPA Water profile
« on: November 10, 2014, 07:25:05 PM »
I've been messing around with water a lot lately and settled in on this:

Ca:80
Mg:7
Na: 17
SO4:150
Cl:55
HCO3: 42

Target mash pH: 5.3

I'm getting there with a 50-50 mix of distilled & Philly tap water, additions of Gypsum & CaCl, and 1.8% Acid Malt. How's this sound for a Hoppy Pale Ale/Session IPA Water profile? Would you guys change anything?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 07:50:29 PM by BrodyR »

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19824
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2014, 07:46:42 PM »
I prefer more sulfate in mine. 250-350 ppm
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2014, 07:52:21 PM »
I've been messing around with water a lot lately and settled in on this:

Ca:80
Mg:7
Na: 17
SO4:150
Cl:55
HCO3: 42

Target mash pH: 5.3

I'm getting there with a 50-50 mix of distilled & Philly tap water with additions of Gypsum & CaCl. How's this sound for a Hoppy Pale Ale/Session IPA Water profile? Would you guys change anything?

I think it looks fine, but it depends on what you're after. I like to use between 250 - 300ppm SO4 for a dry, hop forward IPA, but your profile would work perfectly fine. As long as you keep your pH good.
Jon H.

Offline BrodyR

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 512
  • Philadelphia, PA
    • View Profile
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2014, 08:02:27 PM »
I prefer more sulfate in mine. 250-350 ppm

Yea, increasing the Sulfate a bit was my one thought. My only fear is that it would leave it tasting too dry.

I'm going for a juicy, low IBU, heavy aroma type pale ale similar to a HopHands where the oats result in a solid body.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19824
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2014, 08:30:54 PM »
I prefer more sulfate in mine. 250-350 ppm

Yea, increasing the Sulfate a bit was my one thought. My only fear is that it would leave it tasting too dry.

I'm going for a juicy, low IBU, heavy aroma type pale ale similar to a HopHands where the oats result in a solid body.

So it's not an IPA like the title says?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline BrodyR

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 512
  • Philadelphia, PA
    • View Profile
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2014, 09:27:13 PM »
I prefer more sulfate in mine. 250-350 ppm

Yea, increasing the Sulfate a bit was my one thought. My only fear is that it would leave it tasting too dry.

I'm going for a juicy, low IBU, heavy aroma type pale ale similar to a HopHands where the oats result in a solid body.


So it's not an IPA like the title says?

Well it's a spinoff I suppose: Heavy on the late hops like an IPA (1.2lbs/BBL), dry-hopped like a Double IPA (~2lbs/bbl) but with body (from 15% oats in the grist) and relatively low IBUS's for the amount of aroma hops/OG (30 ibu's for a 1.050 OG). I suppose it fits the most as an APA style wise but the heavy late/dry hops make it drink more like a session IPA, just juicier.

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8976
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2014, 10:22:52 PM »
I prefer more sulfate in mine. 250-350 ppm

Yea, increasing the Sulfate a bit was my one thought. My only fear is that it would leave it tasting too dry.

I'm going for a juicy, low IBU, heavy aroma type pale ale similar to a HopHands where the oats result in a solid body.


So it's not an IPA like the title says?

Well it's a spinoff I suppose: Heavy on the late hops like an IPA (1.2lbs/BBL), dry-hopped like a Double IPA (~2lbs/bbl) but with body (from 15% oats in the grist) and relatively low IBUS's for the amount of aroma hops/OG (30 ibu's for a 1.050 OG). I suppose it fits the most as an APA style wise but the heavy late/dry hops make it drink more like a session IPA, just juicier.

How big is the batch? You could split the wort and add more gypsum to one fermenter. Heck, you can even add some to a glass and see what it does.

Edit - it is problematic to take the gypsum out!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 12:25:12 AM by hopfenundmalz »
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2014, 11:10:46 PM »
I use McDole's water for all hoppy beers. It is pretty close to Martin's pale ale profile.

Offline mabrungard

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2478
  • Water matters!
    • View Profile
    • Bru'n Water
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2014, 12:29:44 AM »
Juicy?? Unfortunately, too much malt or malt flavor complexity interferes with hop flavor and bittering. Having adequate dryness in the beer is helpful on several fronts...drinkability, hop flavor, and bittering perception to name a few.

With that said, 150 ppm sulfate is an OK starting point. But I suggest that the dryness won't measure up to the beer. It will still be plenty drinkable, though. I've come to the conclusion that around 200 ppm sulfate is sort of a low end range for hoppy beers and 300 suits my preferences better.
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/Brun-Water-464551136933908/?ref=bookmarks

Offline erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6229
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2014, 02:36:42 PM »
You can always add some Gypsum to taste later in the process if you feel like you need it. 150ppm is certainly a good starting point. Personally, I stick to the 200ppm range in my IPA's, which tend to be moderately bittered with massive late hops. I can start to taste the sulfate once my beers creep into the 300+ppm range.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline reverseapachemaster

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3194
    • View Profile
    • Brain Sparging on Brewing
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2014, 04:49:13 PM »
Juicy??


Apparently this word is an obligatory descriptor for all hoppy beers now. Last night I read a description of a saison that used "juicy" or some derivative eight times that described the aroma, flavor and mouthfeel all as "juicy". Drives me insane.
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing

Offline BrodyR

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 512
  • Philadelphia, PA
    • View Profile
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2014, 07:20:43 PM »
Appreciate the input everyone, I suppose I'll crank the Sulfate up to 250 or so. Calcium will go up and I'll use a little less acid malt.

Juicy... haha, I didn't realize that was controversial. It's used a lot around here - most often referring to beers that are heavy on the fruity late/dry hops with a bit of body.

To my personal taste, the extra body added by oats doesn't affect the hop character negatively like heavy crystal malt does (going off of the awesome hoppy APA's, IPA's, and Saisons from Tired Hands & Hill Farmstead I've had with oats). 

Split batching is a great idea but I have limited kegs.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 07:22:26 PM by BrodyR »

Offline erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6229
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2014, 02:14:27 AM »
Juicy??


Apparently this word is an obligatory descriptor for all hoppy beers now. Last night I read a description of a saison that used "juicy" or some derivative eight times that described the aroma, flavor and mouthfeel all as "juicy". Drives me insane.
I don't know about a saison, but my IPA's can get pretty juicy. Stuff enough hops like Nelson, Citra, etc. in a beer and you can get to the point where it's more like a Mai Tai than an IPA.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline BrodyR

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 512
  • Philadelphia, PA
    • View Profile
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2014, 03:09:29 AM »
Juicy??


Apparently this word is an obligatory descriptor for all hoppy beers now. Last night I read a description of a saison that used "juicy" or some derivative eight times that described the aroma, flavor and mouthfeel all as "juicy". Drives me insane.
I don't know about a saison, but my IPA's can get pretty juicy. Stuff enough hops like Nelson, Citra, etc. in a beer and you can get to the point where it's more like a Mai Tai than an IPA.

Exactly, definitely Citra and Amarillo comes to mind as well. Dechutes Fresh-Squeezed IPA has that juicy character as the name implies.

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8598
    • View Profile
Re: IPA Water profile
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2014, 06:34:04 AM »
Juicy??


Apparently this word is an obligatory descriptor for all hoppy beers now. Last night I read a description of a saison that used "juicy" or some derivative eight times that described the aroma, flavor and mouthfeel all as "juicy". Drives me insane.

Good thing the 2014 style guides are finalized yet. Theres still time to get Juicy in there.

"Low to moderate juiciness in examples that have no peat smoked malt"