[Stevie]

But I agree with you, homebrewers alone won't sustain his sales.

Star San is not Five Star's only product.  Companies will continue to manufacturer a product as long as it is profitable to do so.

Where did I say it was the only product? I am speaking in terms of Star San alone. Five Star lists Star San on their site as a product for Craft Brewers as well. Get off your horse already.


Thread on Pro-brewer with brewers noting that they use both Saniclean and Star San for separate applications. http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?15226-sanitizer-and-oxygen

[denny]

Every pro-brewer with whom I have spoken does not use Star San.

Yet I know many who do use Star San.

[S. cerevisiae]

My wife got really tired of shorts, jeans and t-shirts with white spots all over...and my stuff didn't look much better!

I had a couple of pairs of jeans and a few t-shirts that were reserved for brewing.  I switched to iodophor before switching to Star San because my wife banned iodophor. 

[S. cerevisiae]

I am speaking in terms of Star San alone.

Why would Five Star stop selling a profitable product because the primary market is home brewers?  The home brewing market is large enough to support many manufacturers, especially when a manufacturer owns their part of the market. 

Get off your horse already.

I do not know how to ride a horse. 

[BrewArk]

In theory, if you "cleaned" your surface perfectly, you would remove ALL of the microbes and any potential food for microbes to live, grow or breed upon.  Then you would not need to sanitize.  In the real world perfection doesn't happen.  Since none of these surfaces are sterile.  The best we do is to reduce the numbers of the "bad" microbes and hope the "good" ones out-compete them.

Still, it is my belief that good hygiene is more important than your sanitizer choice.  Any microbe (yeast, mold, virus or bacteria) that gets washed away, won't need to be killed.  There was lots of "good" beer produced in the 19th century when there was no sanitizer use and hygiene was the only control method.

After good cleaning, as a regular practice I use both solutions of StarSan (in a spray bottle on stainless fermenter), and bleach (buckets, tubing, & siphon, small equipment), so for me it is a matter of which is most convenient for a given piece of equipment.

Still, if I thought I had an infected piece of equipment it'd go to the bleach, maybe with a boiling water chaser if appropriate. 

[S. cerevisiae]

We have to remember that many of us couple Star San as a second step after cleaning with something like PBW or Oxyclean, so the first step may have killed off many of the nasties that Star San would not.

Do you clean your equipment before and after use?

[S. cerevisiae]

Still, it is my belief that good hygiene is more important than your sanitizer choice.  Any microbe (yeast, mold, virus or bacteria) that gets washed away, won't need to be killed.  There was lots of "good" beer produced in the 19th century when there was no sanitizer use and hygiene was the only control method.

You have a very good point.  Thorough cleaning is much easier with glass and stainless than it is with plastic.

At one time, my favorite cleaner/sanitizer for soda kegs was chlorinated trisodium phosphate (CTSP).  I have never found anything that cleans and sanitizes as well in one step as CTSP.  However, that stuff is difficult to find locally, not to mention that it is environmentally unfriendly.

[blatz]

I 'shock' my system every 4-6 months with Acid #5.  works pretty well for me.  amazing the amount of crud that comes loose that you didn't even know was there.

[HoosierBrew]

You might want to inform all the commercial breweries using StarSan that they're at risk.  I'm gonna have to se some evidence that homebrewers are the primary target before I can accept that. 

This is how I feel too. For a few years now I've given the buckets and other plastic a yearly-ish bleach soak before starsan, mostly out of sanitation OCD. I never felt I needed it, just saw it as cheap insurance. But it does stand to reason that a lot (maybe even most) craft beer and the vast majority of award winning homebrew is made using starsan as the sanitizer. I find it pretty hard to believe that such a large number of $$ paying customers and BJCPs who judge homebrews are unsophisticated enough to pick up on 'infections' that starsan in theory might not eradicate.

[klickitat jim]

I havent seen 1 gallon jugs of starsan for sale at my LHBS or at MoreBeer but five star sells them by the 4 pack, so that must be a hint that someone out there buys it. Who knows if they are commercial breweries or not though.

I use starsan with great success. My routine is oxyclean hot soak, scrub, rinse, iodophor if it touched sour beer, then starsan. No problems. Well water without any chlorine (as evidenced by ward labs) But that is just one anecdotal-experiential data point. Yur mileage may vary

[Wort-H.O.G.]

I havent seen 1 gallon jugs of starsan for sale at my LHBS or at MoreBeer but five star sells them by the 4 pack, so that must be a hint that someone out there buys it. Who knows if they are commercial breweries or not though.

I use starsan with great success. My routine is oxyclean hot soak, scrub, rinse, iodophor if it touched sour beer, then starsan. No problems. Well water without any chlorine (as evidenced by ward labs) But that is just one anecdotal-experiential data point. Yur mileage may vary

and who's to say we all haven't had a touch of some bug at some point , yet good healthy yeast, proper pitching, and good oxygenation and the yeast get in and kick the crap out of anything before it has a chance to take hold. after all the experience posted on the thread, thats my theory and im sticking to it.

[S. cerevisiae]

But it does stand to reason that a lot (maybe even most) craft beer and the vast majority of award winning homebrew is made using starsan as the sanitizer.

Most commercial breweries are not using Star San to sanitize fermentation vessels or any other CIP equipment.  Star San foams too much to used in CIP applications. Peracetic acid (a.k.a. peroxyacetic acid) appears to be the current darling in professional brewing circles, which is why I brought it up in the other thread.  It appears that a few breweries are using chlorine dioxide. Some are using SaniClean because it does not foam as much as Star San.  The breweries that are using Star San appear to be using it on the outside of equipment.  Star San as a fermentation vessel sanitizer appears to be mostly a home brewing thing.

[S. cerevisiae]

I use starsan with great success. My routine is oxyclean hot soak, scrub, rinse, iodophor if it touched sour beer, then starsan. No problems. Well water without any chlorine (as evidenced by ward labs) But that is just one anecdotal-experiential data point. Yur mileage may vary

I am just curious, but do you clean your fermentation vessels before and after use?

[Wort-H.O.G.]

I use starsan with great success. My routine is oxyclean hot soak, scrub, rinse, iodophor if it touched sour beer, then starsan. No problems. Well water without any chlorine (as evidenced by ward labs) But that is just one anecdotal-experiential data point. Yur mileage may vary

I am just curious, but do you clean your fermentation vessels before and after use?

For me I clean after with oxy easy clean and starsan to finish. Then before with starsan one last blast before wort touches anything post boil.

I routinely bleach the surface of all areas I brew in-tables, counter tops, etc, just nothing wort touches at this point is cleaned with bleach.


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[klickitat jim]

I use starsan with great success. My routine is oxyclean hot soak, scrub, rinse, iodophor if it touched sour beer, then starsan. No problems. Well water without any chlorine (as evidenced by ward labs) But that is just one anecdotal-experiential data point. Yur mileage may vary

I am just curious, but do you clean your fermentation vessels before and after use?

Generally my fermentation vessels (30L Spiedels) are cleaned, sanitized, and filled within 24 hrs. Racked one day, soaked in hot oxyclean overnight,  then scrubbed, rinsed, sanitized,  and filled the next day.