[HoosierBrew]

+1 to 833 - great yeast for malty lager (aside from being Ayinger's yeast). And to limiting chocolate here. It wouldn't take much to go right past Celebrator's level of roast. I wouldn't want to use more than ~3 oz in 5 gallons.

[klickitat jim]

Good idea. Actually 11 lbs of liquid munich malt extract should get you about 1.070 in 5.5 gallons final volume. You could steep 4 oz of milled carafa in one of those gallons to get your color up. It sounds too easy but I think youd be surprized. If you are worried about all that extract not attenuating out maybe go with 9 lbs munich LME and a pound and a half of good old fashioned sugar. I might round the hops up to 2 oz just to be safe too.

Are you saying that extract will not ferment out as well as all grain?

Generally thats the case. Depends in mash schedule and temps of course. For me extract ferments like an all grain with 10-15% crystal and mashed at 158 or higher. So a 1.070 might finish at about 1.015 whereas an all grain with 10% or less can finish out at 1.010 or lower. Depends on yeast and temps too. Well, a lot of things, but for mow I'm just generalizing the difference between extract and ag.

[klickitat jim]

In reviewing this thread, thougyt I would reemphasize that you need to mash munich malt. it should self convert though. Brewers make 100% munich beers afterall. So this can be your step into all grain by mashing your munich. If youre interested we can help you with that.

[DW]

In reviewing this thread, thougyt I would reemphasize that you need to mash munich malt. it should self convert though. Brewers make 100% munich beers afterall. So this can be your step into all grain by mashing your munich. If youre interested we can help you with that.

So, I could just mash the Munich and specialty grains, and that would help me to attenuate well enough?  I was gonna make a big yeast starter as well.  Could I just do a brew in a bag, kinda like I do with steeping grains prior to the boil for the extract brews?  Just keep a close eye on the temperature to make sure it stays around the right mash temp?  And how would I convert the pounds of extract into the quantity of munich malt needed?

[Joe Sr.]

I mash my grains in a 5 gallon paint strainer bag.  Works great.  I have a strainer that fits over the top of my kettle so I can put the bag in the strainer and let it drain and/or rinse it/sparge it.

For conversion from grain to extract of vice versa, a good rule of thumb is 1 lb of grain = 2/3 lb DME or 3/4 lb LME.

[DW]

I mash my grains in a 5 gallon paint strainer bag.  Works great.  I have a strainer that fits over the top of my kettle so I can put the bag in the strainer and let it drain and/or rinse it/sparge it.

For conversion from grain to extract of vice versa, a good rule of thumb is 1 lb of grain = 2/3 lb DME or 3/4 lb LME.

Do you have to do anything with you mash set up to keep the temperature stable?  How much do you sparge with?  What temperature do you sparge? 

[Joe Sr.]

I don't do anything particularly special to keep a steady temp.  I check it, and if it drops I heat the kettle a bit.

I rinse with approximately a gallon of water.  I try for 170, but I'm not particularly careful about it.

[DW]

I'm also playing with the traditional bock recipe in Brewing Classic styles:
3.5lbs Pilsner LME
7.5lbs Munich LME
0.5lbs CaraMunich
0.5lbs Crystal 120
4.0oz Meusdoerffer Rost
4.0oz Melanoidin 

The all grain recipe is for 4.5lbs Pilsner and 10.25lbs Munich Malt and mash at 155 degrees. 

Do you guys think this will attenuate down to 1.018 from 1.070?  Should I replace some of the munich LME with Munich malt and mash it?  IF so, how much?  Does anyone know where I can find Messdoerffer Rost? 

[brewinhard]

Muesdorfffer (sp) rostmalt is no longer produced as far as I know. 

[klickitat jim]

I haven't done a mini mash but if I did I would just do a small version of what I do in my regular mash. 1.5 quarts per pound at about 154-158 for about 60 minutes. If I was only doing a couple pounds I would get one of those 1 gallon thermos coolers that have the flip up spout on top. Heat my measured water, pour it in, stir in milled grain, wad up a fine mesh bag and stuff it in on top to act as a filter, put the lid on and set a timer. Drain it when the timer goes off. For space reasons I would steep the steeping grain separate.