Author Topic: Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout  (Read 1563 times)

Offline mblanks2

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Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout
« on: November 13, 2014, 11:00:33 AM »
I'm planning on brewing a LARGE RIS next Saturday 1.105 OG. Since this stout is so large I’m considering doing a parti-gyle batch. According to Randy Mosher’s Brewing Techniques the second running should be approx. 1.050 and the color will drop from a 56 to 23 SRM.
Here’s my thoughts:
Pull the first runnings and start boil. Add 1lb of flaked oats and 4 ounces of the Black Prinz to the existing mash to get the Stout color back. Change styles to Oatmeal Stout and let it mash in the fly sparge water for an additional hour or 75 minutes while the first boil is going. Add the same chemicals to the second running sparge as I did to the original sparge. Fly sparge to get equivalent amount of pre-boil volume as the first batch. Hop with same types of hops to 39 IBU’s and ferment at same time with same yeast.
What do you think?

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2014, 01:00:49 PM »
A couple of thoughts, based on my experience doing pretty much the same thing with a barleywine + porter partigyle:

You might not get as much color as you think out of your second wort, so if I were you I'd double the Black Prinz to 8 oz.

I don't think there's any need to mash the oats and black for a full hour.  15 minutes in the 150s should be sufficient to convert the starches, or if you're concerned, go 20 minutes.  And this will help also for my following recommendation...

If you want to guarantee good attenuation from your barleywine, and not such dry attenuation in your stout (with a final gravity of like 1.006 or something crazy like that!), then you could plan to boil your stout first, and let the barleywine wort sit for that couple hour period to dry out a little more.  Worked for mine.

Or I guess you could do a mashout on the barleywine while those oats are sitting in there, if you want to lock in sweetness into your barleywine.  But regardless my point is really that you want to dry out your barleywine, rather than leaving your stout to sit at mash temperatures for an extra hour to dry out this small beer even more than it already will be.  For my second-runnings porter, it was so dry that I also had to add lactose to sweeten it, even though I boiled it before the barleywine.  Something to think about.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2014, 02:18:45 PM »
If you get the mash into mashout territory then the enzyme level in the mash will be very low to zero by the time you cap the mash with the oats and black prinz. At that point, you're just steeping both those grains for color, flavor and mouthfeel (from the oats). There's nothing wrong with that, just don't expect to gain additional fermentables from it.

If you are not getting the grain bed that hot during the sparge then you should probably retain enough enzymes to convert the soluble starches in the oats in less than an hour.

Either way, I would not wait an hour to collect runnings for the second beer.
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Offline kramerog

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Re: Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2014, 03:21:00 PM »
For parti-gyle, I prefer not to fly sparge although I generally fly sparge for entire brewing and use the BrauKaiser's parti-gyle simulator.  I find that I can get very accurate results from the simulator for the 1st and 2nd runnings.  http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator.  I haven't had as much success with Randy Mosher's technique. 

I share the concerns of the other posters.  Consider doing a short mini-mash of oats with additional base malts  and then throwing the mini-mash on top of the grain bed for the second running.

Offline mblanks2

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Re: Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2014, 11:34:24 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions. Let me start by saying that my RIS is a recipe for Kate the Great from Portsmouth Brewing Company. I will bulk age this beer on bourbon soaked oak as opposed to Port soaked oak according to the recipe for several months then bottle condition for a minimum of 6 months.
The reason I am looking at doing the way I have laid out is the following:
1) Add the additional Black Prinz and flaked oats only for color, mouth feel and flavor from the oats. Not looking to gain fermentable sugars. I can do 8 ounces of the Black Prinz if that's what you suggest. No problem.
2) The reason for the 1 hour to 75 minute mash is that the length of the RIS boil is that long. I do not have another kettle large enough to perform two boils at the same time or to collect the second runnings at 15 - 20 minutes.
3) I will be mashing at 149*F due to the large amount of specialty and roast malts in the RIS for 75 minutes then boiling for 75 minutes. No mash out. I have a direct fired mash tun so maintaining the temperature will not be a problem.
4) My preferred method is to fly sparge. The RIS is the most important beer out of this deal so I'm looking to hit my numbers and timing on this batch and settle for what I get for the second. Several people that I have conversed with have been getting 1.045 - 1.060 second runnings OG and turning them into stouts or porters. If I fall short on OG with the second runnings I had considered adding a small amount of DME to reach 1.050 - 1.052. If I loose anything with the second batch it's not a huge lose. Just didn't want to waste the potential for the second beer if I could make it work.
Additional thoughts and ideas, please.


Offline mblanks2

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Re: Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2014, 10:02:11 AM »
I went into Beersmith and reduced each grain to a 30% yield to come up with a lower OG than Mosher's technique provides of only 1.030.
If I add:
8 ounces Black Prinz
2lb Flaked Oats
1lb Flaked Wheat
3lbs 2-row
The original gravity comes up to 1.055. and maybe this will put the oatmeal flavor along with some additional body and color back into the wort.

Thoughts?

Offline hamiltont

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Re: Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2014, 06:55:10 PM »
I usually "cap" my 2nd mash with some fermentables like 2-row or wheat for no apparent reason other than I don't like wimpy beers... Keep an eye on your mash PH as well. Too high and you'll be dealing with some astringency in the 2nd beer. If you find your first beer's OG is higher than you like you can blend it with your 2nd beer before or after fermentation... Good Luck. Partygyles make for a longer brew day but they are totally worth it IMO!!!
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Offline brewcrew7

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Re: Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2014, 10:19:57 PM »
The last Zymurgy has an appropriate partigyle article by Ron Pattinson.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2014, 04:10:36 PM »
Denny and Drew's book "Experimental Homebrewing" covers some creative ideas, also.  Just mentioning it as a good read.
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Offline mblanks2

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Re: Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2014, 06:00:34 PM »
I usually "cap" my 2nd mash with some fermentables like 2-row or wheat for no apparent reason other than I don't like wimpy beers... Keep an eye on your mash PH as well. Too high and you'll be dealing with some astringency in the 2nd beer. If you find your first beer's OG is higher than you like you can blend it with your 2nd beer before or after fermentation... Good Luck. Partygyles make for a longer brew day but they are totally worth it IMO!!!

Thanks for the input. I usually check the final runnings PH and since I treat my sparge water it's still usually 5.3 to 5.5. Hopefully everything will work the same. I'll check it about five minutes after adding the additional grains to get an idea of where I'm at.
It's going to be an exciting brew day for sure. AT least I'll have a friend helping me and that should make the time and labor go by a little easier.

Offline mblanks2

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Re: Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2014, 11:03:54 PM »
OMG, what a day! RIS brewed with an OG of 26* Plato. (1.110 OG) and ended up with 5.75 gallon to the fermenter. I'm amazed!

Added the balance of the specialties and hops I had purchased for the RIS plus 2 oz. Williamette, 2lbs of 2-row, .5lbs flaked wheat, .5 lbs Breiss Black Prinz  and a lb of flaked oats to the original grains. Partigyled a 1.057 OG 5.75 gallon Oatmeal stout and mashed @ 153*f and maintained 5.4PH while the initial boil was going on.

All in all a great day. Two beers now in the fermenter.

I've got 1 oz. of medium toast French oak in port and 1 oz. in bourbon waiting for secondary. Plan to split between 2 - 3 gallon carboys for bulk ageing after a 21day primary for the RIS.

2nd runnings Stout should be a 21 day primary and bottle for a nice 5 to 5.5% ABV oatmeal stout. Fermenting with S-04.

Offline hamiltont

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Re: Parti-Gyle Brew - RIS & Oatmeal Stout
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2014, 12:34:45 AM »
Nice!!!! :)
If Homebrew & BBQ aren't the answer, then you're askin' the wrong questions... Cheers!!!