[a10t2]

30 min is a pretty short mash rest, especially if the temperature was in the 140s.

[dmtaylor]

30 min is a pretty short mash rest, especially if the temperature was in the 140s.

In my experience that would NOT be the cause.  Conversion happens quicker than 30 minutes in the upper 140s low 150s where the OP was at.  However, attenuation may suffer because some complex sugars wouldn't be broken down to fermentables as with a longer mash.

[a10t2]

Conversion happens quicker than 30 minutes in the upper 140s low 150s where the OP was at.

True, if he did keep it above ~145°F and the pH was in line. From the information given, I couldn't be sure of either.

[matt.ballard.587]

I checked the temp at 15 min. And it was approx 145.  So i added 1 cup of boiling water.  I remeasured the temp and was showing 154

[matt.ballard.587]

Im not sure of the ph.  I didnt check it.  I probably should have. 
I used boiled and  cooled tap water.  I know we have hard water where i live

[morticaixavier]

If your water is really hard that grist was unlikely to be able to buffer enough alkalinity to make for ideal mash conditions. that could very well have something to do with your problem. Get a couple gallons of RO water, this should cost you less than 1 dollar most places if you bring your own container, and try again with that water and some calcium chloride and gypsum. With RO your grist will have no problem buffering all the alkalinity in the water. you might even have to add some but bru'n water will guide you through that process.

if you want to eliminate or indicate mash chemistry as the heart of the issue, don't change anything else about your process. don't double crush or thin your mash ratio or anything, just switch out the water.

[matt.ballard.587]

What i think im going to do. Is run another batch in a few weeks.  Tweeking a few things.  Double checking my volumes of water and wort.  Keeping a better eye on my temperatures. And leaving the mash for at least an hour this time.  Then if i still get poor efficiency then i will start checking into my water chemistry more

[wingnut]

The other thing that sticks out at me... using a grain bag... how sure are you that there are no "dough balls".   From an all grain perspective,  I find I need to stir the mash a bit to break up the pockets of grain that stay dry, even when submerged in water....   On a couple batches, while cleaning out the mash tun, I used to find that  I still had pockets of dry grain even after the grain being submerged in water for over 90 minutes.... those batches had MAJOR efficiency issues...

Just a thought. 

[erockrph]

The other thing that sticks out at me... using a grain bag... how sure are you that there are no "dough balls".   From an all grain perspective,  I find I need to stir the mash a bit to break up the pockets of grain that stay dry, even when submerged in water....   On a couple batches, while cleaning out the mash tun, I used to find that  I still had pockets of dry grain even after the grain being submerged in water for over 90 minutes.... those batches had MAJOR efficiency issues...

Just a thought.

Good catch - I hadn't thought of this. If you're mashing in a bag, then you should line your mash vessel with the bag and let the grains mix freely into the mash liquid. This would make a huge difference in efficiency.

[morticaixavier]

The other thing that sticks out at me... using a grain bag... how sure are you that there are no "dough balls".   From an all grain perspective,  I find I need to stir the mash a bit to break up the pockets of grain that stay dry, even when submerged in water....   On a couple batches, while cleaning out the mash tun, I used to find that  I still had pockets of dry grain even after the grain being submerged in water for over 90 minutes.... those batches had MAJOR efficiency issues...

Just a thought.

Good catch - I hadn't thought of this. If you're mashing in a bag, then you should line your mash vessel with the bag and let the grains mix freely into the mash liquid. This would make a huge difference in efficiency.

and add more water. 1.3 at/lb isn't crazy thick but it's going to be a lot harder to mix well than 1.5 or 1.75 or even 2 qt/lb

[matt.ballard.587]

The other thing that sticks out at me... using a grain bag... how sure are you that there are no "dough balls".   From an all grain perspective,  I find I need to stir the mash a bit to break up the pockets of grain that stay dry, even when submerged in water....   On a couple batches, while cleaning out the mash tun, I used to find that  I still had pockets of dry grain even after the grain being submerged in water for over 90 minutes.... those batches had MAJOR efficiency issues...

Just a thought.

Im prety sure there were no dough balls. I worked the bag over pretty good.  On my next batch i will work with it more and see about just lining the cooled with my grain bag.