Author Topic: What makes a Bock, a Bock?  (Read 2793 times)

Offline denny

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2009, 12:09:34 PM »
At NHC last year, there was a club (COHO?  Starnge Brew?)  that had brewed the same beer 3 ways to see what decoction would bring to the game.  Here are the results that were emailed to me...

"We had the:

A)     non-decocted beer (dopplebock),

B)      the triple-decocted beer (same recipe)

C)      and a non-decocted beer (replaced ~4-5% of the base malt with melanoidin malt).

 

We asked which beer they thought was decocted.  Results were:

A: 13.89%

B: 45.83%

C: 40.28%

 

In terms of which beer people liked (rank ordered), here were the votes:
   

A
   

B
   

C

1
   

16
   

34
   

24

2
   

24
   

19
   

23

3
   

29
   

13
   

19

 

After applying a basic weighting, you come up with B, C, A.

 

So, the main point we took away was that it really was pretty close between decoction and melanoidin.  The preference likely just came down to intangibles.

 

Anyhow, my basic observation was that for saving 4-5 hours, melanoidin malt is well worth it."
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Offline bonjour

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2009, 12:23:17 PM »
Kevin in my club performed a similar experiment with slightly different results.  He brewed several different beers using a decocted and substituted recipe.  one style showed a decided preference toward the decocted beer. One style showed the substituted recipe had a decided preference.  Feeling was that one of the intangible brewing variables hit each one of those.

Of the rest, split down the middle as to preference with half prefering the decocted beer and half the substituted beer.

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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2009, 12:28:19 PM »
Decoct or not to decoct.
That's a question.

And topic lives on.
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Offline tesla_hv

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2009, 01:48:45 PM »
Definitely Munich malt (and lager yeast). Unless you are talking about a Maibock and that is just technically a Helles brewed to Bock strength with, in some instances, some added specialty malts and a little more hops.

Mmmmm, Munich Helles, one of my favorites.
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Offline blatz

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2009, 03:29:50 PM »
I don't decoct.

I like my german lagers the way they are.

My neighbors and friends like them.

I regularly score well and win medals with them at fairly large comps when I'm not in a hoarding mood, so apparently other people like them aside from friends who could just be patronizing the free beer giver...

Nuff said.

As for what makes a bock a bock, I think its as was said: copious amounts of munich malt and lager yeast.  That's what sets it apart from say a dunkel, with or without a decoction process - both styles are traditionally decocted, but one is smaller and more sessionable, otherwise rather similar.  Least thats JMHO.
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Offline woody

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2009, 03:40:25 PM »
I'll agree with whats already been said-  higher starting gravity, a load of munich malt AND a Goat on the label.   (or use a sharpie to draw one on the keg)     
And decoction is up to the brewer.  (seriously, I'm gonna do a side by side decoction/ non decoction one of these days.  Maybe when I get my dual setup going from my last post....)
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Offline intrinsic

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2009, 07:46:56 PM »
I am curious as to what yeast most people prefer for a Bock or an Octoberfest beer. I made an Octoberfest last year using wlp830 and everyone told me it was awesome. I have been wanting to try the wlp820 (Octoberfest/Marzen Lager) yeast but I am from the old school of thought. If it aint broke then dont fix it. So is the WLP820 worth a try?
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Offline a10t2

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2009, 07:32:30 AM »
I am curious as to what yeast most people prefer for a Bock or an Octoberfest beer.

I use 2206 (same as WLP820) for both a doppelbock and an Oktoberfest. Actually, I use it for all German-style lagers. Liking it so far.
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Offline blatz

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2009, 07:59:32 AM »
I use WL830 for everything.  Particularly with lager yeasts, I don't like switching around. 

Like you said, if it ain't broke.
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Offline The Professor

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2009, 10:29:31 AM »
The answer is simple.
If it tastes like a bock (and what your own expectation of a bock is), then it's a bock. 

Invoking the so called "style guidelines" is fine as a broad reference, but the "guidelines" are a recent invention and certainly don't apply to commercial brews or in many cases, even historical relevance and serve only to offer flavor descriptives for the purpose of competition entries and judging. 
Every traditional "style" is and always has been open to interpretation.  Homebrewers seem more hung up on "styles" than any commercial brewery ever was. ;D

In reading this thread, my favorite response was actually the one which suggested that  all you need to do is "put a picture of a goat on the label". 
 8)
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Offline bluesman

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2009, 10:35:33 AM »
Really good Munich malt...decoction...and alot of healthy yeast.

Ron Price