Author Topic: First IPA-brewing salt question  (Read 3098 times)

Offline blatz

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2014, 06:56:16 PM »
I also target 5.4 pH for IPA (and most beers).  5.5 for dark beers, 5.3 for pale lagers, and 5.2 for saison.

what level bicarb you running on you r IPA's?

I'll post after I get home to check, Ken. It usually involves bumping from  ~ 5.3-5.35 up to 5.4 - not a ton. And starting from RO water, bicarb starts out at very little.

your profile seems very similar to mine. i add 1.4gr baking soda to get about 5.4 and thats around 64ppm bicarb.

try pickling lime over baking soda.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2014, 07:02:46 PM »
I also target 5.4 pH for IPA (and most beers).  5.5 for dark beers, 5.3 for pale lagers, and 5.2 for saison.

what level bicarb you running on you r IPA's?

I'll post after I get home to check, Ken. It usually involves bumping from  ~ 5.3-5.35 up to 5.4 - not a ton. And starting from RO water, bicarb starts out at very little.

your profile seems very similar to mine. i add 1.4gr baking soda to get about 5.4 and thats around 64ppm bicarb.

try pickling lime over baking soda.

it takes more calcium hydroxide to move the PH up to 5.4 with a higher bicarb PPM resulting, than 1.4gr baking soda and less of  bicarb PPM shift.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

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Ger'merican Blonde
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Offline blatz

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2014, 07:32:23 PM »
I also target 5.4 pH for IPA (and most beers).  5.5 for dark beers, 5.3 for pale lagers, and 5.2 for saison.

what level bicarb you running on you r IPA's?

I'll post after I get home to check, Ken. It usually involves bumping from  ~ 5.3-5.35 up to 5.4 - not a ton. And starting from RO water, bicarb starts out at very little.

your profile seems very similar to mine. i add 1.4gr baking soda to get about 5.4 and thats around 64ppm bicarb.

try pickling lime over baking soda.

it takes more calcium hydroxide to move the PH up to 5.4 with a higher bicarb PPM resulting, than 1.4gr baking soda and less of  bicarb PPM shift.

good point - i'll take your word for it on the calcs- i don't have brunwater on this computer, although i've always thought lime was more potent per unit than baking soda.  guess i've always shied away from adding Na to my beer - Ca has always been a plus, but starting with RO its probably a good thing anyway.  I also use RO, but I have probably more lime than I'll be able to use in my lifetime given how little i use.
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2014, 07:44:02 PM »
I never thought I would be weighing out increments under a gram, but now I routinely do!  My last batch sparge involved 3 grams of CaCl and .9 grams of lactic acid.  I guess I need to get an eye dropper rather than trying to dump that amount from a small beaker....
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2014, 07:54:27 PM »
I never thought I would be weighing out increments under a gram, but now I routinely do!  My last batch sparge involved 3 grams of CaCl and .9 grams of lactic acid.  I guess I need to get an eye dropper rather than trying to dump that amount from a small beaker....

i started weighing lactic acid to get better measurement..found it PITA in small amounts
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline archstanton

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2014, 08:15:21 PM »
There was a recent article in the local monthly beer magazine which interviewed San Diegos award winning IPA homebrewers. They touched on each main ingredient. Kelsey McNair starts with r/o water and adds gypsum and calcium chloride and sometimes Epsom salts. He shoots for 250 ppm sulfates, 100-120 calcium and likes the chloride at a 1 to 5 ratio vs gypsum. He also says "bicarbonate is your enemy".

The purpose of adding salts to the mash is for mash ph. Salts can be added to the boil or anytime after. A salt to taste approach, everyones tastes are unique.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2014, 08:34:28 PM »
I also target 5.4 pH for IPA (and most beers).  5.5 for dark beers, 5.3 for pale lagers, and 5.2 for saison.

what level bicarb you running on you r IPA's?

I'll post after I get home to check, Ken. It usually involves bumping from  ~ 5.3-5.35 up to 5.4 - not a ton. And starting from RO water, bicarb starts out at very little.

your profile seems very similar to mine. i add 1.4gr baking soda to get about 5.4 and thats around 64ppm bicarb.

try pickling lime over baking soda.

it takes more calcium hydroxide to move the PH up to 5.4 with a higher bicarb PPM resulting, than 1.4gr baking soda and less of  bicarb PPM shift.
The pH will move more with Ca(OH)2, as you add 2 OH- ions, and the Ca will move it down a little. You add NaHCO3 (baking soda) and you get one HCO3- ion, the Na doesn't move the pH.

Looking at the Brunwater example I have, adding 0.1 gr/gallon will move the pH up 0.9 for pickling lime and 0.5 for baking soda.
Jeff Rankert
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BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2014, 08:56:29 PM »
There was a recent article in the local monthly beer magazine which interviewed San Diegos award winning IPA homebrewers. They touched on each main ingredient. Kelsey McNair starts with r/o water and adds gypsum and calcium chloride and sometimes Epsom salts. He shoots for 250 ppm sulfates, 100-120 calcium and likes the chloride at a 1 to 5 ratio vs gypsum. He also says "bicarbonate is your enemy".

The purpose of adding salts to the mash is for mash ph. Salts can be added to the boil or anytime after. A salt to taste approach, everyones tastes are unique.

starting PH in bru'n water is 5.30:
- adding 1.2gr baking soda to 5.6 gal water results in +.1  PH (now 5.4) and +40ppm Bicarb
or
- adding .7gr pickling lime to 5.6 gal water results in +.1 PH (now 5.4) and +56ppm bicarb

so adding pickling lime vs. baking soda  to shift .1PH results in higher bicarb PPM
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2014, 10:02:48 PM »
There was a recent article in the local monthly beer magazine which interviewed San Diegos award winning IPA homebrewers. They touched on each main ingredient. Kelsey McNair starts with r/o water and adds gypsum and calcium chloride and sometimes Epsom salts. He shoots for 250 ppm sulfates, 100-120 calcium and likes the chloride at a 1 to 5 ratio vs gypsum. He also says "bicarbonate is your enemy".

The purpose of adding salts to the mash is for mash ph. Salts can be added to the boil or anytime after. A salt to taste approach, everyones tastes are unique.

starting PH in bru'n water is 5.30:
- adding 1.2gr baking soda to 5.6 gal water results in +.1  PH (now 5.4) and +40ppm Bicarb
or
- adding .7gr pickling lime to 5.6 gal water results in +.1 PH (now 5.4) and +56ppm bicarb

so adding pickling lime vs. baking soda  to shift .1PH results in higher bicarb PPM

I think I now see what you were saying. The absolute level of bicarb is not that high.

My point is that pickling lime is pretty powerful, and has its use as you add Ca and not Na, as for some styles the Na might not be desired.

For the record, I have both in my sealed jar of salts that gets brought out on brewday.
Jeff Rankert
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BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2014, 10:10:56 PM »
There was a recent article in the local monthly beer magazine which interviewed San Diegos award winning IPA homebrewers. They touched on each main ingredient. Kelsey McNair starts with r/o water and adds gypsum and calcium chloride and sometimes Epsom salts. He shoots for 250 ppm sulfates, 100-120 calcium and likes the chloride at a 1 to 5 ratio vs gypsum. He also says "bicarbonate is your enemy".

The purpose of adding salts to the mash is for mash ph. Salts can be added to the boil or anytime after. A salt to taste approach, everyones tastes are unique.

starting PH in bru'n water is 5.30:
- adding 1.2gr baking soda to 5.6 gal water results in +.1  PH (now 5.4) and +40ppm Bicarb
or
- adding .7gr pickling lime to 5.6 gal water results in +.1 PH (now 5.4) and +56ppm bicarb

so adding pickling lime vs. baking soda  to shift .1PH results in higher bicarb PPM

I think I now see what you were saying. The absolute level of bicarb is not that high.

My point is that pickling lime is pretty powerful, and has its use as you add Ca and not Na, as for some styles the Na might not be desired.

For the record, I have both in my sealed jar of salts that gets brought out on brewday.

yep all im saying is when trying to minimize the bicarb, baking soda vs pickling lime is lower. im only coming up with 16ppm sodium so no biggie
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2014, 10:46:15 PM »
I'm a big fan of using baking soda as compared to the trickier nature of PL. But using baking soda seems pretty reliant on using RO or distilled water to keep Na levels in check. Luckily for me I use all RO - I posted a couple months back about a big, roasty American stout I made where I mashed all the grains together and still stayed under Martin's recommendation of sub 50ppm Na. Mine worked out to 47ppm Na. So using RO or distilled it seems pretty hard to even get outside of proper Na levels. And btw, that stout was amazing - one of my best ever.
Jon H.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2014, 10:57:51 PM »
I'm a big fan of using baking soda as compared to the trickier nature of PL. But using baking soda seems pretty reliant on using RO or distilled water to keep Na levels in check. Luckily for me I use all RO - I posted a couple months back about a big, roasty American stout I made where I mashed all the grains together and still stayed under Martin's recommendation of sub 50ppm Na. Mine worked out to 47ppm Na. So using RO or distilled it seems pretty hard to even get outside of proper Na levels. And btw, that stout was amazing - one of my best ever.

same here. martin told me the same thing and ive used baking soda every time i needed a bump..ive never come close to 50ppm Na if i recall, and cant say i detected anything detrimental. its easy, accessible, and works well for me.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline AnimALE

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2014, 05:18:04 PM »
I thought distilled water has zero everything and a ph of 7..So without alkalinity i can adjust the brewing water with phosphoric to get a ph to 6 and from there take a measurment after i dough in and adjust until my ph is at my target of 5.4..again excuse me im a water noob

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2014, 05:24:01 PM »
I thought distilled water has zero everything and a ph of 7..So without alkalinity i can adjust the brewing water with phosphoric to get a ph to 6 and from there take a measurment after i dough in and adjust until my ph is at my target of 5.4..again excuse me im a water noob

One well know guy says he adjusts RO water to 5.5 with phosphoric acid, mashes in the base grains, and adds flavor salt additions to the kettle.

Distilled water will be 7 pH, but if exposed to air the pH will drop as CO2 will be absorbed into the water to form carbonic acid. That drops the pH to 6 or a little less.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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First IPA-brewing salt question
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2014, 09:03:03 PM »
I thought distilled water has zero everything and a ph of 7..So without alkalinity i can adjust the brewing water with phosphoric to get a ph to 6 and from there take a measurment after i dough in and adjust until my ph is at my target of 5.4..again excuse me im a water noob

Much easier to target your ph before mash and add make your additions. If you're using bru'n water and since your using distilled water, you should be right where it projects. Adjusting during the mash can be done but tricky until you get experience with things. You can lose mash temp quickly, and even over or under adjust PH/ making for a frustrating day.

Edit- you are also seemingly focusing on the ph of your water; that's not what you want to do. You want to know your starting water profile, your grist and its contributions, and your targeted water profile for the beer you are making. Then adding all salts, you will see an estimated PH- that's the important PH value.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 09:13:32 PM by wort-h.o.g. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest