Author Topic: Boil Length & Fermentability?  (Read 1226 times)

Offline sambates

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Boil Length & Fermentability?
« on: November 19, 2014, 07:06:41 PM »
I know that a longer boil will give me a more potent wort and slightly raise my OG, but I was wondering if a longer boil also impacts the fermentability of my wort? I am wanting to use a 2 hour boil on a big SMaSH beer to give some more depth of character, but do not want it to finish high and be cloyingly sweet. Any input or experience here?
Tap: Brandy Barrel Sour, Brett IPA, Tart Cherry Berliner, Sour Coffee Porter, Witbier, Helles Bock, Helles Bock Braggot, Strawberry "Nebraskambic," Raspberry Flanders
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Offline AnimALE

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2014, 07:10:19 PM »
I know that a longer boil will give me a more potent wort and slightly raise my OG, but I was wondering if a longer boil also impacts the fermentability of my wort? I am wanting to use a 2 hour boil on a big SMaSH beer to give some more depth of character, but do not want it to finish high and be cloyingly sweet. Any input or experience here?

I do not believe so..I think the fermentability is determined by the mash temp and duration..Having a mash with beta amylase being the most active with result in higher fermentability..A longer boil will just raise the OG..Im pretty sure

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2014, 07:17:28 PM »
I know that a longer boil will give me a more potent wort and slightly raise my OG, but I was wondering if a longer boil also impacts the fermentability of my wort? I am wanting to use a 2 hour boil on a big SMaSH beer to give some more depth of character, but do not want it to finish high and be cloyingly sweet. Any input or experience here?

I do not believe so..I think the fermentability is determined by the mash temp and duration..Having a mash with beta amylase being the most active with result in higher fermentability..A longer boil will just raise the OG..Im pretty sure
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2014, 07:19:09 PM »
I know that a longer boil will give me a more potent wort and slightly raise my OG, but I was wondering if a longer boil also impacts the fermentability of my wort? I am wanting to use a 2 hour boil on a big SMaSH beer to give some more depth of character, but do not want it to finish high and be cloyingly sweet. Any input or experience here?

mash temp, grain bill, PH would all be things to look at to drive "depth of character"...but you'll have to define what that means to you for more help.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline blatz

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2014, 07:30:06 PM »
I know that a longer boil will give me a more potent wort and slightly raise my OG, but I was wondering if a longer boil also impacts the fermentability of my wort? I am wanting to use a 2 hour boil on a big SMaSH beer to give some more depth of character, but do not want it to finish high and be cloyingly sweet. Any input or experience here?

mash temp, grain bill, PH would all be things to look at to drive "depth of character"...but you'll have to define what that means to you for more help.

boiling longer is recommended on some beers to develop 'depth of character' - doppelbocks, barleywines and scotch ales are some that come to mind.  the thought is a more caramelly or melanoid-y character is developed (although there is the argument that neither of those reactions actually occur since caramelization occurs in the absence of water). 

anyhow - I don't know that 2 hours is going to really be noticeable to be honest.  most of the aforementioned styles, if the recipe calls for long boil times, are usually in the 3-4+ hour range.

for me personally, I spend 6-7 hours on a brew day as it is, and my standard 90 min boil has always been enough for me.  Adding 2 more hours to that better be noticeably better, which longer boils and decoctions have not proven themselves to be.
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Offline blatz

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2014, 07:32:58 PM »
one other thing...

there is a speed method that is utilized in the famous 'skotrat's traquair house' recipe - you boil down the first gallon of first runnings to a quart and add that to the main boil - this definitely gives you some interesting flavor, and doesn't add much time.  just make sure you watch that small boil carefully... ;)
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2014, 07:37:50 PM »
I know that a longer boil will give me a more potent wort and slightly raise my OG, but I was wondering if a longer boil also impacts the fermentability of my wort? I am wanting to use a 2 hour boil on a big SMaSH beer to give some more depth of character, but do not want it to finish high and be cloyingly sweet. Any input or experience here?

mash temp, grain bill, PH would all be things to look at to drive "depth of character"...but you'll have to define what that means to you for more help.

boiling longer is recommended on some beers to develop 'depth of character' - doppelbocks, barleywines and scotch ales are some that come to mind.  the thought is a more caramelly or melanoid-y character is developed (although there is the argument that neither of those reactions actually occur since caramelization occurs in the absence of water). 

anyhow - I don't know that 2 hours is going to really be noticeable to be honest.  most of the aforementioned styles, if the recipe calls for long boil times, are usually in the 3-4+ hour range.

for me personally, I spend 6-7 hours on a brew day as it is, and my standard 90 min boil has always been enough for me.  Adding 2 more hours to that better be noticeably better, which longer boils and decoctions have not proven themselves to be.

yeah i guess i would agree i dont see how 90-120 minutes would do much of anything, so i'd focus more on the what and the how of the mash and grist.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2014, 08:22:25 PM »
Fermentability is not affected by boil time.  If you want a lengthy dissertation on fermentability, see here:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=21119.msg267521#msg267521
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2014, 08:33:16 PM »
I know that a longer boil will give me a more potent wort and slightly raise my OG, but I was wondering if a longer boil also impacts the fermentability of my wort? I am wanting to use a 2 hour boil on a big SMaSH beer to give some more depth of character, but do not want it to finish high and be cloyingly sweet. Any input or experience here?

it won't affect your fermentability but it will affect your FG because what unfermentable sugars are there will be concentrated along with everything else. the mash, grist, etc. will set the likely Attenuation percentage and this percentage won't change due to a longer boil (it'll be 77% for example whether you start at 1.050 or you boil down to 1.075 but the 1.075 is going to have 50% more unfermentables so the FG might be 50% higher (1.018 instead of 1.012). Although I doubt it would be that significant or linear.

one other thing...

there is a speed method that is utilized in the famous 'skotrat's traquair house' recipe - you boil down the first gallon of first runnings to a quart and add that to the main boil - this definitely gives you some interesting flavor, and doesn't add much time.  just make sure you watch that small boil carefully... ;)

this is where I would go with it to deepen the character. or just lot's more malt. a Single malt beer can be very complex if it's north of 1.100
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2014, 09:37:21 PM »
I know that a longer boil will give me a more potent wort and slightly raise my OG, but I was wondering if a longer boil also impacts the fermentability of my wort? I am wanting to use a 2 hour boil on a big SMaSH beer to give some more depth of character, but do not want it to finish high and be cloyingly sweet. Any input or experience here?

it won't affect your fermentability but it will affect your FG because what unfermentable sugars are there will be concentrated along with everything else. the mash, grist, etc. will set the likely Attenuation percentage and this percentage won't change due to a longer boil (it'll be 77% for example whether you start at 1.050 or you boil down to 1.075 but the 1.075 is going to have 50% more unfermentables so the FG might be 50% higher (1.018 instead of 1.012). Although I doubt it would be that significant or linear.

one other thing...

there is a speed method that is utilized in the famous 'skotrat's traquair house' recipe - you boil down the first gallon of first runnings to a quart and add that to the main boil - this definitely gives you some interesting flavor, and doesn't add much time.  just make sure you watch that small boil carefully... ;)

this is where I would go with it to deepen the character. or just lot's more malt. a Single malt beer can be very complex if it's north of 1.100

Yes, 100% MO or GP boiled for 4 hours to get to 1.115 will turn out to have a lot of malt character.

Maillard reactions will happen, darkening the wort and adding yummy malty flavors.
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Offline sambates

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2014, 09:52:04 PM »
I know that a longer boil will give me a more potent wort and slightly raise my OG, but I was wondering if a longer boil also impacts the fermentability of my wort? I am wanting to use a 2 hour boil on a big SMaSH beer to give some more depth of character, but do not want it to finish high and be cloyingly sweet. Any input or experience here?

it won't affect your fermentability but it will affect your FG because what unfermentable sugars are there will be concentrated along with everything else. the mash, grist, etc. will set the likely Attenuation percentage and this percentage won't change due to a longer boil (it'll be 77% for example whether you start at 1.050 or you boil down to 1.075 but the 1.075 is going to have 50% more unfermentables so the FG might be 50% higher (1.018 instead of 1.012). Although I doubt it would be that significant or linear.

one other thing...

there is a speed method that is utilized in the famous 'skotrat's traquair house' recipe - you boil down the first gallon of first runnings to a quart and add that to the main boil - this definitely gives you some interesting flavor, and doesn't add much time.  just make sure you watch that small boil carefully... ;)

this is where I would go with it to deepen the character. or just lot's more malt. a Single malt beer can be very complex if it's north of 1.100

Yes, 100% MO or GP boiled for 4 hours to get to 1.115 will turn out to have a lot of malt character.

Maillard reactions will happen, darkening the wort and adding yummy malty flavors.

Is there an equation to figure how much of a higher gravity to expect over a longer boil? I'm doing a Barleywine with 100% ESB Malt and I do not see that BeerSmith really helps calculating the OG over a long boil time. Also, planning to mash low around 148-150? Shooting for 1.110-1.112 and possibly 1.020-1.022 FG.
Tap: Brandy Barrel Sour, Brett IPA, Tart Cherry Berliner, Sour Coffee Porter, Witbier, Helles Bock, Helles Bock Braggot, Strawberry "Nebraskambic," Raspberry Flanders
Secondary: OatRye Blonde, Plout Sour, Blueberry Ginger Sour
Primary:Belgian Dark Strong, Scottish Wee Heavy, American Session Wild Ale, Brandy Barrel "Lincolnambic"

Offline blatz

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2014, 10:03:18 PM »
I know that a longer boil will give me a more potent wort and slightly raise my OG, but I was wondering if a longer boil also impacts the fermentability of my wort? I am wanting to use a 2 hour boil on a big SMaSH beer to give some more depth of character, but do not want it to finish high and be cloyingly sweet. Any input or experience here?

it won't affect your fermentability but it will affect your FG because what unfermentable sugars are there will be concentrated along with everything else. the mash, grist, etc. will set the likely Attenuation percentage and this percentage won't change due to a longer boil (it'll be 77% for example whether you start at 1.050 or you boil down to 1.075 but the 1.075 is going to have 50% more unfermentables so the FG might be 50% higher (1.018 instead of 1.012). Although I doubt it would be that significant or linear.

one other thing...

there is a speed method that is utilized in the famous 'skotrat's traquair house' recipe - you boil down the first gallon of first runnings to a quart and add that to the main boil - this definitely gives you some interesting flavor, and doesn't add much time.  just make sure you watch that small boil carefully... ;)

this is where I would go with it to deepen the character. or just lot's more malt. a Single malt beer can be very complex if it's north of 1.100

Yes, 100% MO or GP boiled for 4 hours to get to 1.115 will turn out to have a lot of malt character.

Maillard reactions will happen, darkening the wort and adding yummy malty flavors.

Is there an equation to figure how much of a higher gravity to expect over a longer boil? I'm doing a Barleywine with 100% ESB Malt and I do not see that BeerSmith really helps calculating the OG over a long boil time. Also, planning to mash low around 148-150? Shooting for 1.110-1.112 and possibly 1.020-1.022 FG.

pretty sure as you increase the boil time, the expected gravity goes up.

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Offline denny

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2014, 10:25:24 PM »
I do not believe so..I think the fermentability is determined by the mash temp and duration..Having a mash with beta amylase being the most active with result in higher fermentability..A longer boil will just raise the OG..Im pretty sure

You are correct that the boil length will have no impact, but the main driver of fermentability is the recipe.  However, given the same recipe, mash temp and duration will have an impact.
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Offline denny

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2014, 10:26:27 PM »
boiling longer is recommended on some beers to develop 'depth of character' - doppelbocks, barleywines and scotch ales are some that come to mind.  the thought is a more caramelly or melanoid-y character is developed (although there is the argument that neither of those reactions actually occur since caramelization occurs in the absence of water). 


And keep in mind that melanoidins are colors, not flavors.
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Offline blatz

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Re: Boil Length & Fermentability?
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2014, 10:29:49 PM »
boiling longer is recommended on some beers to develop 'depth of character' - doppelbocks, barleywines and scotch ales are some that come to mind.  the thought is a more caramelly or melanoid-y character is developed (although there is the argument that neither of those reactions actually occur since caramelization occurs in the absence of water). 


And keep in mind that melanoidins are colors, not flavors.

Doh!! I did know that.  Touché
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

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