Author Topic: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?  (Read 1849 times)

Offline kgs

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Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« on: April 30, 2010, 07:35:47 AM »
I did my second batch of this recently and it's tasty but Not Quite Right; not as grainy as THA, and a little paler.

I do a partial mash, using extract in place of about 50% of the grain bill, and cut the recipe in half, but basically, the full, all-grain recipe (found several places on the Web) is 10 lbs 2-row, 2 lbs Vienna, 1/2 lb Crystal (15L), 1/2 lb CaraPils, and then lots of Centennial in the wort and in dry-hopping. I used Nottingham in the second batch. The first I used California Ale yeast and felt it was a little closer to the mark, so I'm thinking I'll go back to that. I'm hitting the what look like good numbers (1.068/1.012).

What if I bump up the Vienna a bit? Other ideas?

We can't get this beer in these parts, so my interest in it is even higher than it was when I could walk into the local grocery store and buy a six-pack. I'm finding I really like single-hop beers... something about focusing on one particular hop is very pleasing to my palate.



K.G. Schneider
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Re: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 07:40:32 AM »
I don't know the clone of Two Hearted ale but I can;t imagine 2 lbs of vienna would do very much. Maybe try going with 50% of the grist as vienna. Also, not sure if the cara pils is necessary with 1/2 of crystal, but like I said, I don;t know the clone recipe.
Keith Y.
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Offline kgs

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Re: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 08:12:32 AM »
This is a really typical version (sorry, the site wasn't responding earlier):

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/bells-two-hearted-ale-clone-close-they-come-91488/

Brew365 lists pretty much the same thing:

http://www.brew365.com/beer_two_hearted.php

Half Vienna? Why not? That's the fun of homebrewing. Vienna has slightly lower diastatic power (or so I am reading) but Beersmith can help me adjust the bill. 
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2010, 08:47:22 AM »
FWIW, guys in my club have had good results using light Munich instead of Vienna.  Bells also uses Breiss for most of their base malts.

I would not worry about the diastatic power of Vienna or Munich, as I made a 98% Vienna Vienna and a 96% Munich Dunkel, with no problems.  At the % you are talking it will be no problem.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline kgs

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Re: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2010, 08:51:57 AM »
FWIW, guys in my club have had good results using light Munich instead of Vienna.  Bells also uses Breiss for most of their base malts.

Thanks! Would they have a recipe to share?
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 08:56:10 AM »
It is very similar to the recipies you posted, sub the Munich for the Vienna, and you are good.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline kgs

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Re: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 09:50:04 AM »
Would this Briess Bonlander Munich Malt be the right grain?

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/High_Temp_Kilned_Malts.htm#Bonlander
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Re: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 10:08:15 AM »
Give the Bonlander a try.  I have used 10L in the past. 

Jeff Rankert
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Re: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 10:51:22 AM »
I don't know the clone of Two Hearted ale but I can;t imagine 2 lbs of vienna would do very much.

It does some, which is all that is needed to enhance the base malt.  The base malt is probably Breiss - and this is from the AHA rally tour of the production brewery.

Noonan has something to say " "Base" barley malts provide the bulk of the wort's soluble extract and the enzymes that produce it. The base malts, in order of ascending color, are Pilsener, lager, pale, mild, Vienna, and Munich. The last two, however, are most commonly used at only 10-25% of the grain bill for mild flavor contribution."
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=25024;topic=2121.0;num_replies=7;sesc=741d7486d8011b31413941333733a2d2

If you look at "Designing Great Beers", under the lager section, Jahn Mallet was said to use 10-20% Munich in his Dortmunder to emulate Dortmunder malt when he was at Old Dominion.  He is the Production Manager at Bell's now.  Coincidence, hmmm?
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Re: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 11:26:34 AM »
FWIW, guys in my club have had good results using light Munich instead of Vienna.  Bells also uses Breiss for most of their base malts.

I would agree with this. I brew what I consider to be a dead-on clone and it's just 80% 2-row, 16% Munich I, 4% C20.
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Offline kgs

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Re: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 11:34:04 AM »
FWIW, guys in my club have had good results using light Munich instead of Vienna.  Bells also uses Breiss for most of their base malts.

I would agree with this. I brew what I consider to be a dead-on clone and it's just 80% 2-row, 16% Munich I, 4% C20.

This is really useful--thanks! Now I'm yearning to brew this... have to wait a week due to other obligations :-(
K.G. Schneider
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Re: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2010, 05:37:14 AM »
FWIW, guys in my club have had good results using light Munich instead of Vienna.  Bells also uses Breiss for most of their base malts.

I would agree with this. I brew what I consider to be a dead-on clone and it's just 80% 2-row, 16% Munich I, 4% C20.

+1  I think Munich will get you much closer.  That said, I think the key to cloning Two Hearted is harvesting yeast from a bottle.  The yeast really lends a lot to the malt profile of this beer.  I brewed a clone about a month ago and it's very, very close.  Here's the recipe I used:

Bell's Two Hearted Clone
14-B American IPA

Size: 5.15 gal
Efficiency: 80.0%
Attenuation: 83.0%
Calories: 211.02 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.064 (1.056 - 1.075)
Terminal Gravity: 1.011 (1.010 - 1.018)
Color: 10.92 (6.0 - 15.0)
Alcohol: 6.99% (5.5% - 7.5%)
Bitterness: 60.4 (40.0 - 70.0)

Ingredients:
8 lb 2-Row
3 lb Light Munich
1 lb Caramel Malt 20L
1.35 oz Centennial (9.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1 oz Centennial (9.0%) - added during boil, boiled 20 min
.50 ea Whirlfloc Tablets (Irish moss) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
.50 oz Centennial (9.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
2 L starter of Bell's Ale Yeast


Notes
Single infusion batch sparge
-Add 1/2 tsp CaCO3 and 1/4 tsp gypsum to mash
- 15.6 qts @ 164 ==> Saccharafication @ 151 [60 min]
- 4.66 qts @ 212 ==> Mashout @ 165 [10 min]
- 14 qts Sparge H2O @ 185 ==> Sparge @ 170 [10 min]

Ferment in the mid-60s.  Bell's ale yeast takes several weeks to finish fermenting, IME.
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Offline kgs

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Re: Amount of Vienna in Bell's Two-Hearted Ale?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2010, 06:10:19 AM »
Thanks. Munich it is... I've already determined that the local LHBS's carry Briess. I will try it with WLP001 again when I brew it the next time, for one very important reason. When we moved cross-country last fall we also moved away from Bell's distribution areas! (See http://www.bellsbeer.com/distributor.html ... I'm in San Francisco) But I've read that about using Bell's for the yeast.

I wonder if I keep brewing and tinkering with "my" version without being able to compare it to the real thing if I'll be surprised someday when I taste THA again. "Hey, that's not Two-Hearted Ale!" ;-)

(Cultivating yeast from a bottle sounds good to learn... there must be local beers I can practice on.)
K.G. Schneider
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