Author Topic: citra saison  (Read 4699 times)

Offline homoeccentricus

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citra saison
« on: December 06, 2014, 04:34:55 PM »
Hi folks,

I'm going to brew Drew's Citra Saison, with Weyermann floor-malted pils and WYeast French Saison. This will be my first saison, and, being a Belgian, I want this to be as good as possible, because there's nothing so sad as a sad saison.

Any suggestions on how to make this saison stand out? Of course we all know that it should be bone-dry, but what else? I want this to be the best lawnmower beer in the world (behind Fantome Saison, of course).

Drew suggests to put some foil on top of the fermenter instead of an airlock to prevent stalling from pressure. Is there independent corroboration on the forum? How is the foil wrapped to avoid tension being built up?

Also, I'm not sure about the fermentation temperature. Should I just let the temperature rise naturally, or increase it? People on a Belgian forum claim that when they visited the Dupont brewery, they saw temperatures as high as 35C (95 in Non-Standard).
Frank P.

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Offline gman23

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2014, 04:38:34 PM »
DuPont uses the 3724 strain which requires very different handling and temps. 3711 is very easy to use and I normally keep around 70f due to laziness. Others here can give good advice regarding that strain...
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Offline kmccaf

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2014, 04:46:27 PM »
I wouldn't go higher than 75 f myself with the 3711 strain. However, The DuPont strain does indeed do well at 90, if you want to go down that road. 3711 goes well with Citra though, and you should make a tasty beer.
Kyle M.

Offline erockrph

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2014, 07:07:39 PM »
Unlike DuPont, 3711 is about as robust a yeast strain as you will find. I usually just let it go at ambient in my basement, which is only about 62F (~17C) in the spring/summer when I brew my saisons. After a week, I put on my Brew belt to raise the temp. I usually allow about a week longer than a normal ale to finish up. I find that it takes its time to finish up the last point or two of fermentation. I get a bit of tartness, but not as much pepper/spice as Dupont at that fermentation temp.

The great thing about 3711 is the mouthfeel. Even though it finishes bone dry, it has a nice juicy/full mouthfeel. It makes a simple saison that really reminds me of a dry white wine. It's a fantastic lawnmower beer, and the juiciness and acidity are perfect for a hop like Citra.
Eric B.

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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2014, 09:43:54 PM »
OK, with the French Saison I'll stay under 75. Anything else I can do to make this beer shine?
Frank P.

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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2014, 11:10:19 PM »
make sure to carbonate it high enough. the aroma will really pop and it will cleans the palate after each sip.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2014, 11:19:47 PM »
make sure to carbonate it high enough. the aroma will really pop and it will cleans the palate after each sip.

Agreed. Makes a big difference.
Jon H.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2014, 12:22:47 AM »
In my experience, no simple sugars are needed when using 3711 provided you have a fairly simple grain bill.  A low mash temp is also not really necessary either.  You could probably get away with mashing around 150-152F and just be fine.  You will not need the foil on the carboy as 3711 does not stall in the same way that WY 3724 can. 

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2014, 12:35:00 AM »
Just checked my latest saison today, fermented with 3711.

Mashed high and fermented low (50s)  before allowing it free rise. Not as dry as I'd like but I'm going to give it a week or so.


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Offline erockrph

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2014, 04:47:46 AM »
OK, with the French Saison I'll stay under 75. Anything else I can do to make this beer shine?
I like to target a lower pH (mash pH 5.3) to help accentuate the acidity from the 3711. That's a matter of personal preference, though. It comes out a bit tart that way.
Eric B.

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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2014, 10:19:01 AM »
The recipe calls for 7% table sugar with 6.5% ABV. In or out?
Frank P.

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Offline JT

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2014, 10:34:40 AM »
The simple sugar will fully attenuate, helping to give it a dry finish.  In.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2014, 12:28:18 PM »
Sugar added:
  1. begin/middle/end of boil
  2. begin/middle/end of fermentation
  3. at some other moment in the brewing process (please specify  :P)
  4. doesn't matter
?
Frank P.

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Offline JT

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2014, 12:42:17 PM »
Your choice.  I would only say don't add it at the beginning of fermentation.  Either way my process is to dissolve the sugar in about a cup of hot water.  I add this to the boil (I do about 15-30 minutes prior to end).  I've taken to dissolving sugar in water first after I had an incident with Belgian syrup cooking on the bottom of my boil kettle. 
If adding during fermentation, let the sugar water cool first.  Adding during fermentation could be a good way to wake up stubborn yeast that aren't attenuating your beer as much as you'd like. 
For my next saison, I was going to try adding during late fermentation, around 75% complete.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 12:44:19 PM by JT »

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2014, 01:32:28 PM »
That's what people on Belgian forums say: let the hungry yeast first chew on the more complex sugars as a main course, and when they're almost done, give them the simple sugars for dessert. Not sure whether this metaphor makes any sense.
Frank P.

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