Author Topic: citra saison  (Read 7664 times)

Offline erockrph

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2015, 07:34:07 PM »
I have tasted my citra saison. Best beer I have ever made. I am so grateful for the recipe and the advice.
Still, one question: although the beer ended at 1002, I still seem to taste some residual sugar. And I write "seem" because I'm not even very sure it's sweet. What could that be? The wheat? The citra? Something else?

If you used 3711 , it leaves a fuller mouthfeel than the FG would lead you to believe.  And fruity hops like Citra, Mosaic, El Dorado,etc., definitely give the beer a fruity flavor.  I think your brain gets tricked into thinking that the fruity hop character is actual sweetness where there is none.  But it sure can seem like it. BTW, nice job, sounds good !
+1 - 3711 produces a fair amount of glycerol, which leads to a nice mouthfeel despite finishing bone dry. Oily, citrusy hops will also leave an impression of sweetness even though they're not sweet. Which is why there are a lot of lousy commercial IPA's, IMO. Underattenuation plus fruity hops is just not pleasant to me.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2015, 07:41:16 PM »
Oily, citrusy hops will also leave an impression of sweetness even though they're not sweet. Which is why there are a lot of lousy commercial IPA's, IMO. Underattenuation plus fruity hops is just not pleasant to me.


Totally agree. Limiting crystal and mashing low lets you get away with pretty fruity hop character. I guess a fair number of breweries must see it differently. To each his own.
Jon H.

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2015, 09:10:38 PM »
Ok, makes sense. Thanks!
Frank P.

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Offline troybinso

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2015, 09:16:38 PM »
Alcohol tastes sweet as well, and if your beer finished at 1.002 then there is a pretty good chance  you have a decent amount of alcohol in there.

Fruity esters from the Saison yeast also contribute to the appearance of sweetness.

Offline pinnah

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2015, 09:21:43 PM »
Sounds good.  Has it been a month already?
I was thinking hydrometer samples did not count. ;)

Any chance you want to post the recipe you used?
I am particularity interested in the OG and the hop schedule.

Offline 69franx

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2015, 09:28:09 PM »
Sounds good.  Has it been a month already?
I was thinking hydrometer samples did not count. ;)

Any chance you want to post the recipe you used?
I am particularity interested in the OG and the hop schedule.
Yes, I'd like to check it out too
Frank L.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2015, 10:36:11 PM »
Sounds good.  Has it been a month already?
I was thinking hydrometer samples did not count. ;)

Any chance you want to post the recipe you used?
I am particularity interested in the OG and the hop schedule.

I interrupted the dryathlon temporarily to taste the saison.  :-( But only for science's sake!

The recipe is from the book "Experimental Homebrewing". Not sure whether it's appropriate to post it here...
Frank P.

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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2015, 10:51:35 PM »
Sounds good.  Has it been a month already?
I was thinking hydrometer samples did not count. ;)

Any chance you want to post the recipe you used?
I am particularity interested in the OG and the hop schedule.

I interrupted the dryathlon temporarily to taste the saison.  :-( But only for science's sake!

The recipe is from the book "Experimental Homebrewing". Not sure whether it's appropriate to post it here...

isn't it in beer wiki?
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2015, 11:01:55 PM »
Alcohol tastes sweet as well, and if your beer finished at 1.002 then there is a pretty good chance  you have a decent amount of alcohol in there.


+1.  Good catch. I should've mentioned that too.
Jon H.

Offline pinnah

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2015, 05:14:14 PM »
I interrupted the dryathlon temporarily to taste the saison.  :-( But only for science's sake!

The recipe is from the book "Experimental Homebrewing". Not sure whether it's appropriate to post it here...

 :) Sounds like it might only get better for you.

Excellent form. Thanks for letting us know where to find it.

Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2015, 08:35:16 PM »
Interesting thread :)
I was in dubio about Citra saisons; I tend to equate Citra with fresh hoppiness, and saisons are (almost by definition) not fresh.
But then I got handed a box of fresh medlars by a friend, with the express directive to brew a saison with them. I could've picked Saaz, but gravitated to Citra from the get-go, so here goes: Saison Cul de Chien.

Made a 5 gal. batch, comprising 36% Pilsner, 36% pale and 28% wheat malt.
Mashed on the low end at 150°F, where it gradually petered down to about 140 (my mash tun needs an insulation coat).
70' boil.
0.5 ounces of Citra @70' (26 IBU)
1.0 ounces of Citra @ 10' (6 IBU)
1.5 ounces of Citra @ flameout (0 IBU)

5g of black pepper corns and zest of 1 lemon @10'.

Cooled to 68°F and pitch with French Saison (second generation 3711, kindly donated by homoeccentricus).
Fermented at 71°F, ramping to 77 over the course of a week; dropped from 1.063 to 1.002.

Racked to secondary and split in three batches.

1) basic version. Will likely be dryhopped with more Citra.
2) Cul de Chien: added syrup I made from about 2 dozen bletted medlars, half a lemon, and sugar.
3) basic + Orval dregs for Brett funk and rustic saison character.

I intend to leave all three in secondary untill late spring, and bottle them at 2.5 - 3 volumes of CO2.

I must say I'm quite please with that French Saison. I liked it a lot better than the Fermentis Belle Saison i've used for saisons so far. I split my yeast cake in half. One half will be returned to the donating brewer, the other half will make me more saison :)

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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2015, 11:49:12 AM »

3) basic + Orval dregs for Brett funk and rustic saison character.

There's a very strong rumor that there is no longer any brett in Orval. Do you notice any brettish development?
Frank P.

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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2015, 12:39:38 PM »
There's a very strong rumor that there is no longer any brett in Orval. Do you notice any brettish development?

The bottle I used is over a year old. There's definitely Brett still being used at bottling: the beer has that classic  brett character all over it. Completely different from the fresh beer. My expectation is that the Brett will impart noticable rustic flavours to my own saison in about half a year. I'll bottle it then, which should make the citra still noticable by the time it's drinkable in the historic sense (mid-to-late summer) and possibly improving with maturation for another three years or so.
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2015, 07:00:23 PM »
For 5.5 gallons at 1.058, 51 IBUs, 6.5% ABV
GRAIN BILL
6 lbs Pilsner Malt
4 lbs Wheat Malt
0.5 lbs Munich Malt
0.7 lbs White Table Sugar

MASH SCHEDULE
Rest
149°F 60 minutes

HOPS
0.7 oz Magnum Pellet 12%AA 90 minutes
1.8 oz Citra Pellet 11%AA 5 minutes

OTHER INGREDIENTS
1⁄2 tablet Whirlfloc 10 minutes

YEAST
WY3711 French Saison
Drew Beechum - Maltosefalcons.com
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: citra saison
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2015, 08:19:06 PM »
come on! You are giving away that recipe for free? And I had to buy the whole book! 
Frank P.

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