Author Topic: trub or no trub-brulosophy  (Read 1821 times)

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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trub or no trub-brulosophy
« on: December 10, 2014, 01:54:08 PM »
another great experiment with some interesting findings- some I'd have presumed otherwise.

http://brulosophy.com/2014/06/02/the-great-trub-exbeeriment-results-are-in/
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Offline denny

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2014, 04:53:53 PM »
If you look around here, I posted a similar experiment with the same results a few years back.  It was from the HBD Brews and Views board.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2014, 04:55:17 PM »
Interesting that the cicerone and guy studying to be a cicerone were both unable to identify the standout.
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Offline denny

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2014, 05:18:15 PM »
Couldn't find that link here, but here's the original....

http://hbd.org/discus/messages/40327/41534.html
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Offline JT

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2014, 05:36:29 PM »
Love this thread.  Any experiments done with increased pellet hops like an IPA?

Offline erockrph

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2014, 06:28:54 PM »
Love this thread.  Any experiments done with increased pellet hops like an IPA?
That's something I'm quite interested in myself. I use a truckload of hops in my IPA's, and I've had several lately that end up with a lot of harsh "raw hop" flavor that I'm assuming is from all the fine hop debris that doesn't clear. I've assumed that this is coming from the dry hops rather than the trub, but it would be nice to see a test.
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Offline Multifaceted

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2014, 07:14:49 PM »
Love this thread.  Any experiments done with increased pellet hops like an IPA?
That's something I'm quite interested in myself. I use a truckload of hops in my IPA's, and I've had several lately that end up with a lot of harsh "raw hop" flavor that I'm assuming is from all the fine hop debris that doesn't clear. I've assumed that this is coming from the dry hops rather than the trub, but it would be nice to see a test.

I've done several batches without filtering out the trub or break material & hops, two of them were IPAs with 10.5oz of hops for 5.5 gal (7.5 in the boil, flameout & hopstand; 3 oz dry hop). Flavor comes through rather nice, perceivably better than when I used a large hop bag to contain them, however; this could also be due to the added contact area from not being contained.

My dumbest guess might assume that once the wort is cooled to pitching/ferm temps, then there isn't any bitterness being imparted. Though, a lot of the trub gets stirred up during fermentation. I guess my next batch of IPA I could split the batch between 3 gallon carboys, pitch, and ferment side by side at the same temperature and compare.... but then I'd have to tie up two kegs vs. one for a single batch.

Offline erockrph

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2014, 07:26:25 PM »
Love this thread.  Any experiments done with increased pellet hops like an IPA?
That's something I'm quite interested in myself. I use a truckload of hops in my IPA's, and I've had several lately that end up with a lot of harsh "raw hop" flavor that I'm assuming is from all the fine hop debris that doesn't clear. I've assumed that this is coming from the dry hops rather than the trub, but it would be nice to see a test.

I've done several batches without filtering out the trub or break material & hops, two of them were IPAs with 10.5oz of hops for 5.5 gal (7.5 in the boil, flameout & hopstand; 3 oz dry hop). Flavor comes through rather nice, perceivably better than when I used a large hop bag to contain them, however; this could also be due to the added contact area from not being contained.

My dumbest guess might assume that once the wort is cooled to pitching/ferm temps, then there isn't any bitterness being imparted. Though, a lot of the trub gets stirred up during fermentation. I guess my next batch of IPA I could split the batch between 3 gallon carboys, pitch, and ferment side by side at the same temperature and compare.... but then I'd have to tie up two kegs vs. one for a single batch.
I've never used a bag or spider to hold my hops in the boil. Recently I switched to using pellet hops exclusively to minimize wort/beer loss in my IPA's, and that's when I started getting this rough bitterness. I'm just wondering if it's coming from the boil, the dry hops, or both, so I can adjust my practice. I don't think the bitterness is coming from extra extraction, but from fine hop material being stuck in suspension. It's similar to licking a hop pellet, rather than the refined bitterness of a finished beer.

FWIW, I use a lot more hops in my IPA - a little over a pound (12oz in boil, 5oz dry hops) for a 3-gallon batch. I fully realize that I may be the only person dealing with my particular problem...
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2014, 07:29:11 PM »
The counterintuitive clearing makes sense that more particulate matter in the wort will act to filter yeast and other particulates to which it will bind as it falls post-ferment.  The extra sharpness and bite may have something to do with the prolonged contact of more hop matter in the fermenter?  Very interesting experiment for sure.
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Offline Multifaceted

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2014, 07:37:29 PM »
Love this thread.  Any experiments done with increased pellet hops like an IPA?
That's something I'm quite interested in myself. I use a truckload of hops in my IPA's, and I've had several lately that end up with a lot of harsh "raw hop" flavor that I'm assuming is from all the fine hop debris that doesn't clear. I've assumed that this is coming from the dry hops rather than the trub, but it would be nice to see a test.

I've done several batches without filtering out the trub or break material & hops, two of them were IPAs with 10.5oz of hops for 5.5 gal (7.5 in the boil, flameout & hopstand; 3 oz dry hop). Flavor comes through rather nice, perceivably better than when I used a large hop bag to contain them, however; this could also be due to the added contact area from not being contained.

My dumbest guess might assume that once the wort is cooled to pitching/ferm temps, then there isn't any bitterness being imparted. Though, a lot of the trub gets stirred up during fermentation. I guess my next batch of IPA I could split the batch between 3 gallon carboys, pitch, and ferment side by side at the same temperature and compare.... but then I'd have to tie up two kegs vs. one for a single batch.
I've never used a bag or spider to hold my hops in the boil. Recently I switched to using pellet hops exclusively to minimize wort/beer loss in my IPA's, and that's when I started getting this rough bitterness. I'm just wondering if it's coming from the boil, the dry hops, or both, so I can adjust my practice. I don't think the bitterness is coming from extra extraction, but from fine hop material being stuck in suspension. It's similar to licking a hop pellet, rather than the refined bitterness of a finished beer.

FWIW, I use a lot more hops in my IPA - a little over a pound (12oz in boil, 5oz dry hops) for a 3-gallon batch. I fully realize that I may be the only person dealing with my particular problem...

Wholly shi... what's the average IBU figure on your IPAs?

Not knocking it at all, I'm a hop head myself. Just curious is all.

Sounds like an experiment is in order. I just wish I had some of those 3 gallon cornys. Every time I've bottle conditioned my IPAs the hop aroma and some of the flavor has faded by the time they're carbonated.

Offline erockrph

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2014, 07:41:02 PM »
Wholly shi... what's the average IBU figure on your IPAs?

All the boil hops go in at flameout with a long hop stand. I had it measured and it was 98 IBU's. It generally tastes a lot smoother than that, closer to 60IBU - at least it did back when i was still using a mix of whole and pellet hops.
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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2014, 08:19:21 PM »
Wholly shi... what's the average IBU figure on your IPAs?

All the boil hops go in at flameout with a long hop stand. I had it measured and it was 98 IBU's. It generally tastes a lot smoother than that, closer to 60IBU - at least it did back when i was still using a mix of whole and pellet hops.

Good call on the measurement, who did it, a local brewery with lab? I've been confused with the BeerSmith calculations for hopstand vs flameout.

Interesting, sounds like something I'd love to have a pint of! I'd probably up the hop bill on my IPAs, but for me it comes down to dollars and sense. I try to find a balance between my wallet and palate.

I too use pellet hops, I always have.

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2014, 10:56:54 PM »
This will have an impact on choosing a method for re-pitching, won't it?  I use the nylon hop bags (not really worried about trub without hop particulate) during the boil, so I can remove my false bottom from the boil kettle and see what happens when I don't strain any break out.  Maybe a Helles will be a good one to judge by, especially if I also combine this with the temperature step approach advocated in another thread for quicker lager beer.
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Offline dcb

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2014, 05:58:57 AM »
I found the first taster's (Ryan) theory that the trub actually helped to clarify the beer interesting.   I had never considered the idea that it might act as a self-fining.   I started out being rather obsessive about leaving as much crud as possible in the kettle, but have started to settle down about that.  This will certainly give me more courage.

Offline JT

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Re: trub or no trub-brulosophy
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2014, 11:29:50 AM »
That's my thinking too, I'm not going to go out of my way to get more trub in the fermenter, but I think I will ditch my hopstopper and see how I like the results.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 08:53:04 PM by JT »