Author Topic: Doppelbock AG feedback requested  (Read 714 times)

Offline dinoflatulate

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Doppelbock AG feedback requested
« on: December 11, 2014, 01:42:56 PM »
I'm on a fun and steep learning curve right now and want to get an idea of what my currently fermenting doppelbock 'should' taste like. For my 14th brew and 3rd all grain batch, I decided to tinker with some doppelbock recipes and advice I found at (http://www.beersmith.com/Recipes2/recipe_143.htm) and (http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/283-brewing-doppelbock-tips-from-the-pros). This was all before I found this wonderful website and forum!

Here's my recipe that I came up with using Brewtarget to sort of combine the two cited above. I plan to ask about my decoction and low efficiency in the All Grain section. I'd be happy to provide that info if it's useful here, but for now I'd like some qualitative feedback on how this would taste if you brewed it well.

10# Munich
6# Briess Pilsen
0.25# Crystal 120
0.25# Chocolate
0.5oz US Tettn 60min
0.5oz Hallertau 60min
0.5oz US Tettn 30min
0.5oz Hallertau 30min
2 x packets dry Mangrove Jack Bohemian Lager

Water is low alkalinity and I didn't adjust it at all except to dechlorinate.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Doppelbock AG feedback requested
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2014, 03:13:57 PM »
I've not brewed a dopplebock yet but I'll take a shot.

This recipe is going to be a bit muddy. not bad but the roast character, although minimal, from the chocolate might distract from what should be a sweet and strong clean lager. The munich and pilsner is right on but should really be continental malts. Weyermann is my favorite. The crystal 120 shouldn't really be there either as it will add a raisiny/fruity character that might not be all that pleasant. The hops are just not going to do it how you have them. unless it's very high alpha hallertaur and tett.

so to answer your question this recipe will taste extremely sweet and malty with strong raisiny and dark dried fruit character. If the munich is also domestic the fruity character will be even stronger with a white grape juice/candy like sweet malt character. there might be a small floral/herbal nobal hop flavor but it will likely be pretty overwhelmed by the malt. Which is fine for the style.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Doppelbock AG feedback requested
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2014, 03:48:59 PM »
I have done a few Doppelbocks, so here is my $0.02.

10# Munich - Use dark Munich, Weyermann is good, but there are darker like Best.
6# Briess Pilsen - A German Pils malt would be a better choice.
0.25# Crystal 120 - Yeah, does not belong, use some Caramunich III
0.25# Chocolate - Does not belong, use dehusked Carafa
0.5oz US Tettn 60min - US Tett is actually Fuggles per DNA testing, use Tettnanger Tettnang
0.5oz Hallertau 60min - Which Hallertau? There are many and they are different. I use Hallertauer Mittelfrueh
0.5oz US Tettn 30min
0.5oz Hallertau 30min
2 x packets dry Mangrove Jack Bohemian Lager

Process is a big thing here. Decoctions are fine, but my last was a step mash and turned out just yummy.
Fermentation is key, lots of lager yeast, nutrients, O2, pitch around 45F or less and ferment at 48-49 to keep fusels low. Lager as close to freezing as you can get.

If you dive into German lagers, this is a great resource. I will link to his Doppelbock while I am at it, as I tasted it at an NHC and it was outstanding. He lists his water also. pH is important, so measure it if you mess with water.
 
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Braukaiser.com
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Imperator



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Offline erockrph

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Re: Doppelbock AG feedback requested
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2014, 03:54:20 PM »
Personally, I don't think 1/4 lb of chocolate is going to add much roastiness (and after several months of conditioning any faint roastiness might drop out completely - it has happened to me in my doppel). Even if you get a faint amount, I definitely get a touch of roast in Celebrator. So it's not unheard of in top commercial examples.

I also don't think 1/4 pound of C-120 would be horribly out of place. But you should be getting plenty of malt sweetness just from the base malt alone, so it's unnecessary.

But the best thing you can do for your doppelbock is to stick to continental base malts. A good German/Belgian/etc. Pils malt is going to taste worlds better than Briess in a style like this which is all about that base (base malt, that is).

Having said all that, if you ferment and condition this well, it should be a great beer. By condition, I mean to lager for 6-10 weeks, then store it warm for 6-12 months to further develop.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Doppelbock AG feedback requested
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2014, 03:57:23 PM »
I've brewed doppelbock, but never Kai's.  It looks great. I'm tempted to bump my upcoming standard bock up to a doppel.
Jon H.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Doppelbock AG feedback requested
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2014, 04:23:13 PM »

I have done a few Doppelbocks, so here is my $0.02.

10# Munich - Use dark Munich, Weyermann is good, but there are darker like Best.
6# Briess Pilsen - A German Pils malt would be a better choice.
0.25# Crystal 120 - Yeah, does not belong, use some Caramunich III
0.25# Chocolate - Does not belong, use dehusked Carafa
0.5oz US Tettn 60min - US Tett is actually Fuggles per DNA testing, use Tettnanger Tettnang
0.5oz Hallertau 60min - Which Hallertau? There are many and they are different. I use Hallertauer Mittelfrueh
0.5oz US Tettn 30min
0.5oz Hallertau 30min
2 x packets dry Mangrove Jack Bohemian Lager

Process is a big thing here. Decoctions are fine, but my last was a step mash and turned out just yummy.
Fermentation is key, lots of lager yeast, nutrients, O2, pitch around 45F or less and ferment at 48-49 to keep fusels low. Lager as close to freezing as you can get.

If you dive into German lagers, this is a great resource. I will link to his Doppelbock while I am at it, as I tasted it at an NHC and it was outstanding. He lists his water also. pH is important, so measure it if you mess with water.
 
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Braukaiser.com
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Imperator

+1

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Doppelbock AG feedback requested
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 04:27:16 PM »
Personally, I don't think 1/4 lb of chocolate is going to add much roastiness (and after several months of conditioning any faint roastiness might drop out completely - it has happened to me in my doppel). Even if you get a faint amount, I definitely get a touch of roast in Celebrator. So it's not unheard of in top commercial examples.

I also don't think 1/4 pound of C-120 would be horribly out of place. But you should be getting plenty of malt sweetness just from the base malt alone, so it's unnecessary.

But the best thing you can do for your doppelbock is to stick to continental base malts. A good German/Belgian/etc. Pils malt is going to taste worlds better than Briess in a style like this which is all about that base (base malt, that is).

Having said all that, if you ferment and condition this well, it should be a great beer. By condition, I mean to lager for 6-10 weeks, then store it warm for 6-12 months to further develop.

That will make a good beer using the C120 and chocolate, but I strive to make the best that I can following what the breweries in Germany would use.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline dinoflatulate

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Re: Doppelbock AG feedback requested
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2014, 02:12:13 PM »
Thank you so much, you all are awesome! I'm not sure I'll be patient enough to wait as long as I should to drink it, but I'll be looking for the flavors that you all mentioned. Thanks for those links especially.