Author Topic: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts  (Read 5035 times)

Offline Frankenbrew

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2014, 01:40:16 AM »
BS has become my go-to saison yeast. Like others here, I got one free at NHC '13. It was abused for a few days while I abused myself with all the awesome homebrew at the conference. Used the free packets a couple of months later, and I loved it. I have used both WY liquid yeasts, and although this is a bit different than both of them, I love it. As others have said it ferments out extremely dry, and I get all the peppery, lemony, saisony flavor that is classic saison, if there is such a thing. Every time I've fermented from the low 60s to the low 70s F. To me it is foolproof, and I always keep some on hand. I figure that it survived my indifferent treatment after I got it for free, but now I treat it a little better and refrigerate it as soon as I get it. I'm a big BS fan.
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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2014, 07:55:56 AM »
How much time did you give the primary fermentation?  If anything less than 3.5 weeks, then yeah, I'd expect some yeastiness.  It took 3.5 weeks for my saison to clear.  After that, crystal clarity with no yeastiness.
3.5 weeks in primary?  :o

As a rule (however liberally respected), I ferment in primary for as long as the airlock shows noticable visible activity. Plus a few days just to be sure. This hardly ever amounts to more than 10 days. After that, I rack to secondary and banish to the basement until cleared, the airlock remains level and SG ceases to drop.

If and when I decide to give BS another shot, I'll try pitching at a lower temp (my plate cooler's been giving me issues but I think I got that sorted out now) and ferment in a more controlled fashion (yeast fridge with temp control).

It's good thing that saison is such a fuzzy style, because otherwise, BS would never be described as a saison yeast, unless one were to only consider attenuation.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2014, 12:49:35 PM »
Yes, you heard me right.  I had airlock activity in the primary for the full 3.5 weeks.  So I did not rack and did not rush it.  My patience was well rewarded.  My simple straightforward 3.5-week saison took 2nd in competition.  Patience.
Dave

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Offline rodmanxxx

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2014, 08:11:26 PM »
Yes, you heard me right.  I had airlock activity in the primary for the full 3.5 weeks.  So I did not rack and did not rush it.  My patience was well rewarded.  My simple straightforward 3.5-week saison took 2nd in competition.  Patience.

Yesterday I just checked a belgium ipa i made with belle saison 3 weeks ago. It was at 1.006 and still some bubbles at 68 F, so I left it. Thanks for the 3.5 week guideline, that is good to know.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2014, 08:14:58 PM »
It might take even longer.  4 or 5 weeks might be safer if it's still at 1.006.  Mine got down to 1.002.
Dave

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Offline mchrispen

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2014, 08:36:30 PM »
I am a fan of Belle Saison... and it has served me well with awards and good scores throughout. To counter the feedback that folks find the flavors odd or askew from traditional saisons - I have not had the same experience. My saison recipe is fairly standard - belgian pils, some wheat or rye, and a tiny bit of crystal (I have been using special b lately), OG around 1.050 or lower - no spices. I find the sweet spot for me is to pitch (rehydrated) at 66-68F and let this free rise to room temperature (71F-73F) ambient. While the first pitch takes a bit longer to ferment dry (14-18 days), subsequent repitches have been far more aggressive and attenuative (3-4 days to FG).


If you think you are at FG with Belle, I would suggest checking again after about 3-5 days, rather than day to day. All of my Belle based saisons have finished below 1.005.



I love racking these onto fruit for secondary fermentation or into my sour barrel for re-ferment on Brett Brux and dregs from various sours. or both. I often will add a 1/4 lb of honey into the sour barrel with a new beer to kick up the fermentation - and top up along the way.


As a comparison, I just brewed the same saison recipe on WLP568 and was extremely disappointed. Not only did it finish much higher (6 week primary), the flavor seems concentrated and tilted toward phenolics. The batch was fermented at 66F- with a rise after 7 days to 70F. Finished at 1.012, not dry, kind of chewy. The esters are very disappointing and I am considering adding a spice tincture to see if it helps make it palatable.

Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2014, 08:55:39 AM »
Yes, you heard me right. ...  Patience.

My quince saison has been sitting in secondary for the better part of two months now. Primary with BelleSaison, secondary with stewed quince, as well as quince syrup, and a pack of Wyeast5112 Brett brux.
Finally starting to smell like a fruit beer, instead of a big jug of Belle Saison culture.

So yes, I'm all for patience. I'll see if I can do some experimenting with BS at various temperatures to find out where that overpowering presence is coming from.
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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2015, 06:30:18 AM »
Quincy's been bottled, and after just over a week, is startin to show carbonation.

While there's lots to be said against this beer (awful pectin haze being just one), it really was a lesson to me about how Belle Saison pairs well with fruit. Although the Brett may have helped, it seems all those flavours I dislike about BS blend nicely with the (quite overstated but hey, why use quince if you want subtlety?) quince flavours.
Going by what little experience I now have with wyeast 3711, I'd say I made a lucky potshot with this beer: the "true" saison character of 3711 would have become lost in the quince here. Likewise, that Citra siason I brewed with 3711 would never have worked with BS, because the latter would have completely outshone the more delicate citrus notes.

So, generalising callously: Belle Saison for (not so subtle) fruit saisons (quince, stone fruit, pineapple, mango, ...) and 3711 for "cleaner" saisons.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2015, 12:46:43 PM »
Yes, you heard me right.  I had airlock activity in the primary for the full 3.5 weeks.  So I did not rack and did not rush it.  My patience was well rewarded.  My simple straightforward 3.5-week saison took 2nd in competition.  Patience.

Yep. I had packaged a 30 bbl batch of saison a couple years ago with this yeast. Taste was great, much like dave describes. But I fined it and ran it off to kegs and shipped it after it was down to 1.009. Even in cold warehouse conditions it continued to ferment in the kegs. It became so carbonated that we could not sell it and had to recall of it back to our tasting room. It was definitely delicious and to my tastes (and many others) it was exactly what you would expect from a Saison.

I brewed another batch (only 15 bbls this time) that I am planning on serving only in tatsing room and I let it sit in the fermentor for 4 weeks and it got down to 1.004. Planning on racking it to BBT today or tomorrow.

If you want an easy to use Saison yeast that really dries out your beer and gives you a very authentic tasting saison I highly recommend this strain. I start it in the mid 60s and never let it get much warmer than high 70s.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2015, 01:43:20 PM »
I love validation from a respected homebrewer and commercial brewer.  Cheers, Keith, and all!
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.