Author Topic: saison  (Read 1645 times)

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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saison
« on: December 18, 2014, 08:46:12 PM »
read a bunch-but looking for thoughts from those who brew saison. knowing what you know now, what recipe would you direct a nube saison brewer to?  thoughts, recipes, all welcome and appreciated.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: saison
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2014, 08:54:52 PM »
A simple basic recipe that I like is  :  75 % Belgian or German Pils
                                                         20% Munich OR Vienna OR Rye
                                                         5 % Wheat
                                                 
                                                         IBU 30ish
                                                         OG 1045+
 
                                                         Mash 148-149F ish, 90 minutes

For your first one, WY3711 is a good strain and is forgiving. Pitch 64-65F, let free rise after a couple days. There are lots of different thing being done with the saison style, but this makes a really good beer !
Jon H.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: saison
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2014, 08:57:17 PM »
A simple basic recipe that I like is  :  75 % Belgian or German Pils
                                                         20% Munich OR Vienna OR Rye
                                                         5 % Wheat
                                                 
                                                         IBU 30ish
                                                         OG 1045+
 
                                                         Mash 148-149F ish, 90 minutes

For your first one, WY3711 is a good strain and is forgiving. Pitch 64-65F, let free rise after a couple days. There are lots of different thing being done with the saison style, but this makes a really good beer !

free rise- what temp are you looking to get up...80's?
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

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Dort
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: saison
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2014, 09:16:16 PM »
Actually I set my controller to go up a couple dF a day up to around 80F after 2-3 days
Jon H.

Offline goschman

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Re: saison
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2014, 09:28:22 PM »
My saison is very similar to Hoosier's I believe. I think I use a little less munich and a little more wheat but the same basic idea. If it's a yeast that I am not familiar with I will throw in some sugar to make sure that it attenuates enough. You don't have to worry about that with 3711.
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Offline 69franx

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Re: saison
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2014, 09:35:38 PM »
How much difference do you see in a recipe like this from Belgian to German grist? I have sacks of Avangard Pils, and Weyerman Munich I&II. I would likely pick up some Dingeman Wheat at LHBS to finish this off. I like the simplicity, the Saison I made last year was 90/10 Pilsner/Munich I with 3724. I enjoyed it but no one else did. I want to try another Saison with 3711 and this looks like a good start.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: saison
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2014, 09:46:03 PM »
How much difference do you see in a recipe like this from Belgian to German grist? I have sacks of Avangard Pils, and Weyerman Munich I&II. I would likely pick up some Dingeman Wheat at LHBS to finish this off. I like the simplicity, the Saison I made last year was 90/10 Pilsner/Munich I with 3724. I enjoyed it but no one else did. I want to try another Saison with 3711 and this looks like a good start.

i just got 55lbs each of light munich and pilsner from avangard that i would use for this also.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: saison
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2014, 09:58:27 PM »
How much difference do you see in a recipe like this from Belgian to German grist? I have sacks of Avangard Pils, and Weyerman Munich I&II. I would likely pick up some Dingeman Wheat at LHBS to finish this off. I like the simplicity, the Saison I made last year was 90/10 Pilsner/Munich I with 3724. I enjoyed it but no one else did. I want to try another Saison with 3711 and this looks like a good start.

I think that the malt really takes a back seat to the yeast, so in my opinion Belgian or German grist shouldn't have a significant impact.

I try to go as simple as possible and let the yeast be the thing.  3711 is my current standard.  I've given up on 3724, at least for the time being.  IME it's very finicky and I don't have a setup where I can easily warm a fermenter.
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Re: saison
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2014, 10:22:31 PM »
I took my first Saison in a slightly different direction...

Last spring I wanted to try my hand at a Saison, but I wasn't committed to a full batch on the first try.  So I decided to split it up and go half Saison, half Gumballhead.  I ended up brewing a single hopped (Amarillo) batch with:

70% Pils
25% Wheat
5% Aromatic

Mash temp was ~150 I think.

I pitched 3711 in the Saison half and followed a fermentation schedule similar to Hoosier's. 

For the Gumballhead half I pitched either 1272 or 1968 (can't remember which, both would work well) and dry hopped with Simcoe & Amarillo.  I kept this one around 66*.

Two completely different beers out of one batch, and I was pleased with both.  This split recipe can be tweaked any number of ways, and it might be an interesting approach to taking on a new style.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: saison
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2014, 10:33:09 PM »
I agree that German Pils works great. I use Dingeman's or Castle when I can find it just on principle, but I've used Weyermann and Avangard in really good saisons. One other thing - there is a fair amount of anecdotal info (a lot of it posted here) that saison yeasts do better with a extra O2 and yeast nutrients. I've done it on the last few saisons and I feel like it definitely helps. The speculation is that saison yeasts MIGHT be more similar to wine yeast than beer yeast. I haven't seen any direct evidence of this but I do know that saison yeasts perform way differently in terms of temp range and far fewer fusel issues.
Jon H.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: saison
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2014, 11:51:33 PM »
I used the Northern Brewer Petite Saison recipe with the dry Belle Saison yeast and it turned out simply fantastic.
Dave

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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: saison
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2014, 11:59:18 PM »
I'm a bit wild with my saison. I love to brew this style because it's so open for interpretation. As others have said it's such a yeast driven style that the grist is really there as support to the yeast.

I like to split my grist between ~60-70% malted barley (a blend of pils, pale, munich, whatever you have on hand really) and a non-barley adjunct. rye malt is nice as is wheat malt. tritical is okay. flaked kamut has a wonderful wheaties flavor that works really well. If the gravity is much over 1.050 I like to add some simple sugar. It may not be necessary but I like the lightness it adds. It also helps cut the somewhat complex malt bill so it doesn't become overly muddled.

on Hops I like to go with either a nice blend of noble and continental type hops (not always actually German/British/Belgian/Czech hops, american versions like sterling or liberty are also nice) or 'classic' american hops. keep bitterness to a minimum because the FG will be very low so there isn't a lot of sweetness to counter bitterness.

pitch cool and let it rise as high as it wants to.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: saison
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2014, 12:03:57 AM »
                                    flaked kamut has a wonderful wheaties flavor that works really well.

I haven't used that. Am I right that it's similar to flaked wheat? 
Jon H.

Offline kmccaf

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Re: saison
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2014, 01:07:50 AM »
I'm a bit wild with my saison. I love to brew this style because it's so open for interpretation. As others have said it's such a yeast driven style that the grist is really there as support to the yeast.

I like to split my grist between ~60-70% malted barley (a blend of pils, pale, munich, whatever you have on hand really) and a non-barley adjunct. rye malt is nice as is wheat malt. tritical is okay. flaked kamut has a wonderful wheaties flavor that works really well. If the gravity is much over 1.050 I like to add some simple sugar. It may not be necessary but I like the lightness it adds. It also helps cut the somewhat complex malt bill so it doesn't become overly muddled.

on Hops I like to go with either a nice blend of noble and continental type hops (not always actually German/British/Belgian/Czech hops, american versions like sterling or liberty are also nice) or 'classic' american hops. keep bitterness to a minimum because the FG will be very low so there isn't a lot of sweetness to counter bitterness.

pitch cool and let it rise as high as it wants to.

Big +1 on this. Except that I would give a more robust endorsement of triticale in saison. I love my triticale saison with lots of Sterling hops. Also hibiscus makes a lovely deep red saison with a nice tart cranberry flavor, and some flavorful honey can do very good things.
Kyle M.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: saison
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2014, 03:01:50 AM »
Good stuff guys- thanks for the knowledge share.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest