Author Topic: 007 Dry English Ale  (Read 1891 times)

Offline blatz

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007 Dry English Ale
« on: December 24, 2014, 06:03:24 PM »
I've used this yeast several times in the past and probably a half dozen times in the past year.  For whatever reason, recently I cannot get more than 71% attenuation with it.

I did a double IPA last summer, and the lack of attenuation ruined it - finished way too sweet and I wound up dumping it. 

Most recently, on an ESB which stopped at 1.016 - this one tastes fantastic, so that is not a problem, but I was expecting much higher attenuation.  I am a little gun-shy to use the slurry from the ESB as planned - re-doing the double IPA above. 

Not sure what the culprit - pH for all beers was in proper range 5.3-4, water profile obviously on target.  I fermented starting at 66, raising to 68 after 4 days for the double and 3 for the ESB. 

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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2014, 06:12:53 PM »
That's really odd because Whitbread "B" is almost foolproof.   Have you made any major changes to your process? 

Offline brewinhard

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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2014, 06:15:39 PM »
If you are concerned, would you consider decreasing your mash temp a bit for your next double IPA to hit a more appropriate FG?

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2014, 06:17:06 PM »
so my experience with 007 has always been a real strong beast done in 3 days and 80+efficiency. always finishes dry and drops very clear in the carboy. I cant see anything you've listed as a problem. i always make a starter, hit for 60 seconds of o2 from red canister. must watch the temp -IME within 48hours i'd get the temp up high 60's -it will start to floc much earlier than most english strains ive used and that could cause attenuation issues.
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Offline blatz

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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2014, 06:23:41 PM »
That's really odd because Whitbread "B" is almost foolproof.   Have you made any major changes to your process?

No - I am very methodical and consistent.  2 stage starter which should have given me about 15% more yeast than needed.

I made a batch of ipa the previous day before the ESB  on the 12th and that attentuated my normal 80%

I'm very perplexed - it's always this strain.
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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2014, 07:19:41 PM »
I would review my recipes and notes to see if there are any connections between the batches that do not attenuate well.  I have encountered oddities over the years, some of which disappeared with no apparent change in process.  I keep a paper log book for this very reason. 

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2014, 07:55:11 PM »
I've never used 007, but I've used WY1098 Dry Whitbread many times and it's always been a beast for me. I use it in an Arrogant Bastard-type clone and it's pretty reliable. Last time it took 1.068 down to 1.009 and that's been the case regularly.

EDIT - I will add that the AB recipe uses a fair amount of Special B, so I mash at ~ 149F for 90 minutes to keep from finishing too high.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 08:00:42 PM by HoosierBrew »
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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2014, 09:04:04 PM »
Paul, that is odd. Are you using a new pitch from WL? Once I had WLP007 mutate into some crazy super strain that dried everything out to a hot mess. I should have saved that. But the resulting beer just wasn't that great.

Offline blatz

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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2014, 09:25:15 PM »
I misspoke before, the IIPA went from 1.093 to 1.024 so 74%, but that also included 5% dextrose in the grist.

both pitches were brand new, first gen batches  - both used 2 vials in 2 stage starters - the IIPA i went up to 5L on the second stage.  i don't buy vials over a month old, either.

mashed the IIPA (91% 2row, 4% c15, 5% dextrose) at 147df.  my brewhouse uses RTDs, but I also double check at mash in with a thermocouple probe reader, and while i hit too low at mash in, it quickly got up to 147 and I hold well.

the ESB (89% MO, 7% eng med crystal, 4% golden naked oats) I mashed at 152-3 for a full hour. pH measured at 5.35.

Keep in mind, I have no problems with ANY other yeast I use - 001/US-05, 1450, 830, 833, which all give me results I expect. 

I am curious if I am either pitching too cold (high 50s, letting it rise to ferm temp of 65-66).  or if 65-66 is too cold, and I should be either fermenting warmer, raising to 68 quicker or both?  puzzling because as Mark said, its purportedly fool proof.

The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2014, 10:03:04 PM »
Fwiw, I pitch 1098 @ 62, hold @ 64 for around 72 hours then slowly ramp up to 72ish. I wonder if this is one where there are more differences between the strains than in others, like 002/1968 and 001/1056 for example.


EDIT - I go this cool for the AB beer to keep fruitiness to a hint, not in-your-face estery.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 10:13:23 PM by HoosierBrew »
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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2014, 10:13:45 PM »
Fwiw, I pitch 1098 @ 62, hold @ 64 for around 72 hours then slowly ramp up to 72ish. I wonder if this is one where there are more differences between the strains than in others, like 002/1968 and 001/1056 for example.

thats what i mentioned in earlier post and seems most likely out of everything- it works quick and starts to floc just as quick, especially if temps are lower. its easy to to miss this if you treat it like other yeast, and wait to ramp up temps later in ferm cycle.
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Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2014, 10:21:59 PM »
I never pitch British ale yeast strains in the fifties.  I usually pitch in the low to mid sixties.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2014, 10:23:54 PM »
Fwiw, I pitch 1098 @ 62, hold @ 64 for around 72 hours then slowly ramp up to 72ish. I wonder if this is one where there are more differences between the strains than in others, like 002/1968 and 001/1056 for example.

thats what i mentioned in earlier post and seems most likely out of everything- it works quick and starts to floc just as quick, especially if temps are lower. its easy to to miss this if you treat it like other yeast, and wait to ramp up temps later in ferm cycle.

Yeah, I hear you. It's easy to have a flocculent strain drop out early if you don't ramp, but I was more curious about whether 007 might tend to do that a little easier, only having used 1098. I've found 1098 pretty easy to use.
Jon H.

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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2014, 10:26:22 PM »

Fwiw, I pitch 1098 @ 62, hold @ 64 for around 72 hours then slowly ramp up to 72ish. I wonder if this is one where there are more differences between the strains than in others, like 002/1968 and 001/1056 for example.

thats what i mentioned in earlier post and seems most likely out of everything- it works quick and starts to floc just as quick, especially if temps are lower. its easy to to miss this if you treat it like other yeast, and wait to ramp up temps later in ferm cycle.

Yeah, I hear you. It's easy to have a flocculent strain drop out early if you don't ramp, but I was more curious about whether 007 might tend to do that a little easier, only having used 1098. I've found 1098 pretty easy to use.

Yeah that's why I chimed in- I agree what you are saying and  IME 007 does do this more as compared to 02,05.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: 007 Dry English Ale
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2014, 10:27:47 PM »

Fwiw, I pitch 1098 @ 62, hold @ 64 for around 72 hours then slowly ramp up to 72ish. I wonder if this is one where there are more differences between the strains than in others, like 002/1968 and 001/1056 for example.

thats what i mentioned in earlier post and seems most likely out of everything- it works quick and starts to floc just as quick, especially if temps are lower. its easy to to miss this if you treat it like other yeast, and wait to ramp up temps later in ferm cycle.

Yeah, I hear you. It's easy to have a flocculent strain drop out early if you don't ramp, but I was more curious about whether 007 might tend to do that a little easier, only having used 1098. I've found 1098 pretty easy to use.

Yeah that's why I chimed in- I agree what you are saying and  IME 007 does do this more as compared to 02,05.


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Ok gotcha, cool !
Jon H.