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Author Topic: Water options  (Read 6851 times)

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Water options
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2015, 10:36:05 am »
65ppm wouldn't be too high to use at all, unless you needed to use baking soda to raise pH for darker styles. That would raise Na pretty high.
While 65ppm isn't off-the-charts high, it's about as high as I'd feel comfortable going. I'd be concerned that if you start adding a lot of other minerals, then the cumulative effect may net you some minerally-tasting beer.

I agree, I stick to the Bru'nwater guidelines for Na pretty closely. The only time I get close to 50ppm is on really roasty stouts. But Martin corrected me before, saying that you really need to be well over 100ppm Na with high sulfate to get minerally. But less is more as far as water treatment to me - I don't want to be even close to overmineralized.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=20124.msg255958#msg255958
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Offline jamesewelch

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Re: Water options
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2015, 07:21:21 pm »
I just keep water simple....

I buy Distilled or RO water from the store (10 gallons per batch)
I add 1 TBS Gypsum and 1 TBS Calcium Chloride (you can pick these up from the homebrew shop) per 5 gallons.

Keeping it simple is the way to go in my book.

Thank you. I've been reading and having a hard time understanding or finding a simple formula for building up my RO water. I'd like to make adjustments, but for now, I just want to keep it simple while I learn more about water.

Do you need to add the Gypsum and Calcium Chloride to both mash and sparge water?

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Water options
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2015, 07:54:16 pm »
Do you need to add the Gypsum and Calcium Chloride to both mash and sparge water?

Yep.
Dave

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Offline wingnut

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Re: Water options
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2015, 09:24:33 pm »
Do you need to add the Gypsum and Calcium Chloride to both mash and sparge water?

I  add to both.  I batch sparge now vs fly sparge (as I used to)... and I have always added the salts to the grain for the mash, and then again when I add the rest of the water.  (Either when I start to fly sparge or when I add the second batch of water to batch sparge)   PH comes out at 5.2  for all styles.

I read somewhere that the grains help the salts disolve, and after adding the salts to the water a number of times and finding a lot of white residue floating on the  bottom of the pots...that is what I do.  (granted, If the salts do not dissolve in the grain... I would have no way of knowing).   

Ever since adding to the mash tun, however, the PH comes out the same each time.  (It may be a coincidence, but if it works...who am I to argue?) :-)

Good luck and enjoy!
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Offline pete b

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Re: Water options
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2015, 09:58:02 pm »
65ppm wouldn't be too high to use at all, unless you needed to use baking soda to raise pH for darker styles. That would raise Na pretty high.
While 65ppm isn't off-the-charts high, it's about as high as I'd feel comfortable going. I'd be concerned that if you start adding a lot of other minerals, then the cumulative effect may net you some minerally-tasting beer.

I agree, I stick to the Bru'nwater guidelines for Na pretty closely. The only time I get close to 50ppm is on really roasty stouts. But Martin corrected me before, saying that you really need to be well over 100ppm Na with high sulfate to get minerally. But less is more as far as water treatment to me - I don't want to be even close to overmineralized.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=20124.msg255958#msg255958
I haven't thus far ended up with a minerally beer. I'm curious at what point there is so little sodium that you lose the flavor enhancement properties of sodium.
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Offline flbrewer

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Re: Water options
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2015, 11:38:19 am »

I just keep water simple....

I buy Distilled or RO water from the store (10 gallons per batch)
I add 1 TBS Gypsum and 1 TBS Calcium Chloride (you can pick these up from the homebrew shop) per 5 gallons.

Keeping it simple is the way to go in my book.

Can the above measurements be scaled down in a linear fashion? 1/2 TBS of gypsum and 1/2 TSB of Calc. Chlor. for a 2.5 gallon brew?

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Water options
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2015, 12:14:33 pm »
My humble opinion... a tablespoon of each for 5 gallons is actually a tad on the high end.  So for 2.5 gallons, maybe just a teaspoon of each is all you need (a teaspoon is 1/3 of a tablespoon).  Somewhere in there.  It's all good.
Dave

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Offline wingnut

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Re: Water options
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2015, 05:21:41 am »
My humble opinion... a tablespoon of each for 5 gallons is actually a tad on the high end.  So for 2.5 gallons, maybe just a teaspoon of each is all you need (a teaspoon is 1/3 of a tablespoon).  Somewhere in there.  It's all good.

Yep,it scales linnearly.  I use a tablespoon because it is easy to be consistent.   Going down to a teaspoon per 2.5 gallons should work ok.   

Try it,and if the ph seems to settle in ok, go with it.
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Offline bassetman

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Re: Water options
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2015, 11:26:01 am »
I am fortunate to have a complete RODI setup in my home. My other hobby is raising rare South American fish. Good thing as my tap is 8.3 ph and liquid rock in hardness. Nice when the hobbies work together. I started with the tablespoon each and will experiment later of changing the ratios for flavors.
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Offline flbrewer

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Re: Water options
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2015, 10:43:44 am »
Is the 1 TBP of each per 5 gallons the amount I would add to the strike and sparge water? Just asking because I actually need 8 gallons of total water for this 5 gallon all grain brew.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Water options
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2015, 02:43:39 pm »
Is the 1 TBP of each per 5 gallons the amount I would add to the strike and sparge water? Just asking because I actually need 8 gallons of total water for this 5 gallon all grain brew.

have you picked up a copy of software for water chemistry? if you haven't, something like bru'n water will save you a great deal of guess work and math.

yes, you will typically have additions for both mash and sparge water.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Water options
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2015, 07:12:31 am »
I would split the tablespoon of each salt between the two water additions, e.g. half tablespoon of each salt in strike and again in sparge.
Dave

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Offline flbrewer

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Re: Water options
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2015, 03:47:24 pm »
Previously I was using a Tbsp of each of Gypsum and CaCl2 for my 5 gallon batches. Browsing through Gordon Strong's new book, most of his recipes only call for a tsp. of CACl2.

Granted, he also mentions bringing his PH down to 5.5 (RO water) for his brewing liquor.

Two questions...
1) Should I be using less that the Tbsp of each to treat my RO water (Pale Ale recipe)?

2) Using the below tool, I see that a Tbsp of each gets into a "high" zone of Calcium ions. If you bump these up slightly higher (adding a few grams) you move into the "dangerous, do not brew" levels.

Why is this? What is dangerous?

http://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

*Edit, using Brun Water as of a few minutes ago...maybe this will answer my questions.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 04:01:46 pm by flbrewer »

Offline JT

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Re: Water options
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2015, 04:08:38 pm »
Previously I was using a Tbsp of each of Gypsum and CaCl2 for my 5 gallon batches. Browsing through Gordon Strong's new book, most of his recipes only call for a tsp. of CACl2.

Granted, he also mentions bringing his PH down to 5.5 (RO water) for his brewing liquor.

Two questions...
1) Should I be using less that the Tbsp of each to treat my RO water (Pale Ale recipe)?

2) Using the below tool, I see that a Tbsp of each gets into a "high" zone of Calcium ions. If you bump these up slightly higher (adding a few grams) you move into the "dangerous, do not brew" levels.

Why is this? What is dangerous?

http://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

*Edit, using Brun Water as of a few minutes ago...maybe this will answer my questions.
A tablespoon is a LOT.  Get a scale that handles grams to the tenth like this one.  Then use Brunwater.  http://www.morebeer.com/products/high-precision-blade-scale-1000.html?site_id=5

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Water options
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2015, 04:12:59 pm »
A tablespoon is a LOT.  Get a scale that handles grams to the tenth like this one.  Then use Brunwater.  http://www.morebeer.com/products/high-precision-blade-scale-1000.html?site_id=5

+1.  I used to do the 'tsp of this, tsp of that' method. Using Bru'nwater gives you a lot more control over pH, and lets you see the cause and effect relationship of adding salts, acid or baking soda on your beer's pH.
Jon H.