Author Topic: First Weizenbock  (Read 1263 times)

Offline breweite

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First Weizenbock
« on: December 29, 2014, 04:36:18 PM »
I brewed my first weizenbock ( WL380, 1.070 OG) on 11/23 and after 12 days I racked to a secondary.  I've been sampling it along the way and it *had* very nice clove and banana flavor. Now 12/29's sample is still very sulfur loaded (which I know is common) and very "rubbery" tasting and it really masks out the flavors I was getting earlier in the fermentation process... I thought weizens were to be drank fairly young, however, I think this one needs some time.  Is it a good idea to age a weizenbock?  Will aging even help clean-up with what I'm guessing are heavy phenols? 

Lastly I had to top off with about 1/2 gallon of tap water that wasn't chlorine treated, could this be a source of the problem?  The interaction between yeast and chlorine?
Cheers from Austin, Tejas!

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2014, 04:49:42 PM »
I brewed my first weizenbock ( WL380, 1.070 OG) on 11/23 and after 12 days I racked to a secondary.  I've been sampling it along the way and it *had* very nice clove and banana flavor. Now 12/29's sample is still very sulfur loaded (which I know is common) and very "rubbery" tasting and it really masks out the flavors I was getting earlier in the fermentation process... I thought weizens were to be drank fairly young, however, I think this one needs some time.  Is it a good idea to age a weizenbock?  Will aging even help clean-up with what I'm guessing are heavy phenols? 

Lastly I had to top off with about 1/2 gallon of tap water that wasn't chlorine treated, could this be a source of the problem?  The interaction between yeast and chlorine?

i might have left it on the yeast for a solid 2 weeks..perhaps 3 weeks. at that point i would have racked to keg or bottle. any off flavors have best chance dissipating in primary on the yeast. now as for as yeast derived phenol-banana and clove, these are characteristics of your beer. higher temps more banana. while cold conditiong/aging can reduce the banana, IME it wont remove it completely.

as far as chlorine in water, yes that can cause off flavors. you want to keep chlorine out of your beer-not sure if this is your issue or not.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 04:51:38 PM by wort-h.o.g. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Offline breweite

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2014, 05:25:24 PM »
i might have left it on the yeast for a solid 2 weeks..perhaps 3 weeks. at that point i would have racked to keg or bottle. any off flavors have best chance dissipating in primary on the yeast. now as for as yeast derived phenol-banana and clove, these are characteristics of your beer. higher temps more banana. while cold conditiong/aging can reduce the banana, IME it wont remove it completely.

as far as chlorine in water, yes that can cause off flavors. you want to keep chlorine out of your beer-not sure if this is your issue or not.

Yikes,  I was afraid I took it off too early... I don't even remember my reasoning.  Do you suggest leaving it?  Or any cold conditioning?

As of right now, it taste like rubber and then the after taste is somewhat enjoyable, where I pick up the typical weizenbock flavors...
Cheers from Austin, Tejas!

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2014, 05:53:19 PM »
i might have left it on the yeast for a solid 2 weeks..perhaps 3 weeks. at that point i would have racked to keg or bottle. any off flavors have best chance dissipating in primary on the yeast. now as for as yeast derived phenol-banana and clove, these are characteristics of your beer. higher temps more banana. while cold conditiong/aging can reduce the banana, IME it wont remove it completely.

as far as chlorine in water, yes that can cause off flavors. you want to keep chlorine out of your beer-not sure if this is your issue or not.


Yikes,  I was afraid I took it off too early... I don't even remember my reasoning.  Do you suggest leaving it?  Or any cold conditioning?

As of right now, it taste like rubber and then the after taste is somewhat enjoyable, where I pick up the typical weizenbock flavors...

not sure about rubber taste..perhaps its something different that you cant put your finger on? if its burned rubber thats a different off flavor ..."skunky" and caused by other things. i'd let it ride another week then bottle or keg for a few weeks of conditioning.

here's description of chlorophenol issue:

Tastes/Smells Like:
Plastic, Vinyl, Iodine
Possible Causes:
Using chlorinated tap water to brew or rinse equipment is the most common cause
for plastic-like or medicinal flavors. Medicinal flavors can also be the result of using
cleanser or sanitizer that is chlorine or iodine based. Some wild yeast will contribute
to a similar medicinal taste.
How to Avoid:
Don’t use chlorinated water to brew or to rinse equipment that will come into contact
with the beer. If chlorinated water must be used, use a water filter that removes
chlorine or boil the water for 15 minutes and then cool to room temperature to force
out any chlorine that may be present. Always use the recommended amount and
concentrations of sanitizers. Most sanitizers will not cause any off flavors when used
properly. When using bleach, use one-half ounce per gallon of water, let equipment
soak for 10 minutes and always rinse with sanitized (pre-boiled) water.


Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2014, 05:53:45 PM »
if you have room I'd let it ride for a while longer and see what happens. rubbery/plasticy sounds like chlorophenols from the tap water. they can also be caused by too high a ferm temp or contamination but from what you said so far I'd lean towards the chlorine.
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Offline breweite

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2014, 06:27:50 PM »
Hmm, maybe it's the water...  Bummer, hard lesson learned!  I'll taste again and see if I can think of a better description than 'rubber'.

In addition, I'm looking into a thermowell because I have a Johnson Controller right now and I think I'm getting some significant swings in temp with the probe strapped to the carboy..  Is digital [controller] and a thermowell worth the investment?   Maybe it will help me pinpoint the issue in the future.
Cheers from Austin, Tejas!

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2014, 07:34:35 PM »
Hmm, maybe it's the water...  Bummer, hard lesson learned!  I'll taste again and see if I can think of a better description than 'rubber'.

In addition, I'm looking into a thermowell because I have a Johnson Controller right now and I think I'm getting some significant swings in temp with the probe strapped to the carboy..  Is digital [controller] and a thermowell worth the investment?   Maybe it will help me pinpoint the issue in the future.

for me, yes. i use both and like the results.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2014, 08:51:44 PM »
Hmm, maybe it's the water...  Bummer, hard lesson learned!  I'll taste again and see if I can think of a better description than 'rubber'.

In addition, I'm looking into a thermowell because I have a Johnson Controller right now and I think I'm getting some significant swings in temp with the probe strapped to the carboy..  Is digital [controller] and a thermowell worth the investment?   Maybe it will help me pinpoint the issue in the future.

I've not noticed any problem using an analog controller with the probe taped to the side
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Offline brewday

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2014, 09:01:24 PM »
I tape the probe to the side and insulate it with an Oskar Blues koozie.  Works great.  Thermowell is just one more thing to clean and sanitize.
Jon Weaver

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2014, 09:08:52 PM »
+2. I make an insulation pocket and tape it to the side of my fermenter and stick the probe into the pocket so it sits tightly against the bucket. Works great.
Jon H.

Offline breweite

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2014, 10:44:59 PM »
I tape the probe to the side and insulate it with an Oskar Blues koozie.  Works great.  Thermowell is just one more thing to clean and sanitize.

+2. I make an insulation pocket and tape it to the side of my fermenter and stick the probe into the pocket so it sits tightly against the bucket. Works great.

Are you setting your temp at fermentation temperatures or a few degrees lower?
Cheers from Austin, Tejas!

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2014, 10:51:16 PM »
I cool to a couple degrees below target and pitch, then set the Ranco where I want to ferment. The fermometer temp is usually no more than a degree off where I'm set on the controller. I'm usually at the low end of most fermentation ranges and it works reliably.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 10:53:58 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2014, 10:55:44 PM »
+1 to the water possibly being the culprit for that "rubbery" flavor.  Unless you used an old vial of WL 380 for your fermentation without making a starter.

Offline breweite

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2014, 11:07:54 PM »
+1 to the water possibly being the culprit for that "rubbery" flavor.  Unless you used an old vial of WL 380 for your fermentation without making a starter.

I went back and looked at some notes.  I'm currently drinking a biere de garde and it is so tasty with no rubber flavors at all, and I remembering topping it off.  My notes specifically said "topped off with 1G RO h20". 

Yup, seems like my water might be my problem, eh, getting lazy at the end of a brew day, now I pay for it!
Cheers from Austin, Tejas!

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Re: First Weizenbock
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2014, 11:11:07 PM »
That sucks.  I bet you won't make that mistake again.  It is a hard way to learn a valuable lesson.  I have unfortunately learned many in this fashion.  After all, it is just beer....