Author Topic: Using lactobacillus  (Read 1105 times)

Offline levensailor

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Using lactobacillus
« on: December 30, 2014, 03:23:28 AM »
I'm having trouble understanding the process of making a gose beer. One recipe states to pitch lacto first and after fermentation is complete, aerate again and then pitch ale yeast. Another recipe I read states to reboil the wort after the lacto fermentation is complete and proceed as usual from there.
Please advise


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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2014, 11:19:08 AM »
I oxygenate, pitch lacto and hold temp at 95-100º for 7-10 days, then drop to 68 and pitch my Brett (or whatever yeast you plan to use, just be sure it is a strain that is acid tollerant, like down to 4ph or so)

Offline Jimmy K

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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2014, 01:21:30 PM »
Both are fine ways to do it. Reboiling is a little more work but it also stabilizes the acidity level and kills the bacteria so you can add yeast, ferment, and bottle with no worries about contaminating other equipment. Just be sure it has the acidity you want before reboiling.
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Offline Pinski

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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2014, 03:27:47 PM »
AFAIK, oxygen will inhibit lactobacillus. Therefore, it is more beneficial to aerate after lacto has done its work (and after a re-boil if you chose to do that as boiling drives off oxygen), prior to pitching the yeast that you choose to finish the beer.
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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2014, 03:54:20 PM »
I've had good results with Berliners using the following process, and I assume the same applies for Gose:

- Lacto starter, no O2/no stir, 1 week @90*
- Pitch lacto starter, no O2, 1 week @90*
- Drop temp, O2 as usual, pitch yeast/brett as usual
- Ferment as usual.

I don't boil, but I do sample periodically for preferred level of tartness.
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Offline Pinski

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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2014, 04:27:27 PM »
I've had good results with Berliners using the following process, and I assume the same applies for Gose:

- Lacto starter, no O2/no stir, 1 week @90*
- Pitch lacto starter, no O2, 1 week @90*
- Drop temp, O2 as usual, pitch yeast/brett as usual
- Ferment as usual.

I don't boil, but I do sample periodically for preferred level of tartness.

+1 good process
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2014, 05:33:31 PM »
If you are just using lactobacillus then it's up to you which process you want to follow. Lactobacillus is killed off by a sanitizer so you don't need to fear using it in your equipment but if you want to boil the beer after souring then that will give you additional insurance against infecting your equipment. The boil will also drive off some of the flavor compounds from lactobacillus. That is something to weigh out. Not all flavors from lactobacillus are necessarily bad but if you want a cleaner sourness then boiling is the way to go.
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Offline duboman

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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2014, 07:55:29 PM »
For my Gose I do the following:
Traditional mash, collect preboil volume and boil 15 minutes, chill to 90, pitch a pack a lacto and hold at 90oF for 3-5 days to sour.

Bring to boil and add hops / salt per schedule, chill as normal and pitch starter of wy1007 and ferment at 60oF.

The final product is great and the process is pretty straight forward
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2014, 09:52:08 PM »
On my next attempt I will O2 after lacto and see if I get more sour sooner.

Offline BryPA

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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2015, 05:54:52 PM »
For what it's worth I just made a stop by a very well known brewery a few days ago for a tour and after having tasted the most fantastic gose ever I asked a question or two. They fermented with lacto preboil for only 8-10 hours and ran the ph down to below 4 before boil and hops. seemed to work great uf you ask my mouth.

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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2015, 03:10:54 PM »
I've had good results with Berliners using the following process, and I assume the same applies for Gose:

- Lacto starter, no O2/no stir, 1 week @90*
- Pitch lacto starter, no O2, 1 week @90*
- Drop temp, O2 as usual, pitch yeast/brett as usual
- Ferment as usual.

I don't boil, but I do sample periodically for preferred level of tartness.

I just finished a Berliner with a very similar technique. I did use the 'handful of malt' in the starter method for lacto innoculation. It does go through some funky odor periods, but does clean up. Both the starter and the main wort were brought down to a pH of 3.1.

The primary difference to the method above is that I do boil for an hour following the lacto stage. A very nice, sweet and tart aroma comes off the kettle during boil. After cooling, US-05 was pitched into the fermenter and it did ferment the beer down to under 1.012. I do have to comment that the ferment is a little slow due to the low pH, but it did its job! The beer is reminiscent of a slightly orangy Mimosa. So that term 'Champagne of the North' is apt. Very tasty.
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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2015, 05:01:12 PM »
I've had good results with Berliners using the following process, and I assume the same applies for Gose:

- Lacto starter, no O2/no stir, 1 week @90*
- Pitch lacto starter, no O2, 1 week @90*
- Drop temp, O2 as usual, pitch yeast/brett as usual
- Ferment as usual.

I don't boil, but I do sample periodically for preferred level of tartness.

I just finished a Berliner with a very similar technique. I did use the 'handful of malt' in the starter method for lacto innoculation. It does go through some funky odor periods, but does clean up. Both the starter and the main wort were brought down to a pH of 3.1.

The primary difference to the method above is that I do boil for an hour following the lacto stage. A very nice, sweet and tart aroma comes off the kettle during boil. After cooling, US-05 was pitched into the fermenter and it did ferment the beer down to under 1.012. I do have to comment that the ferment is a little slow due to the low pH, but it did its job! The beer is reminiscent of a slightly orangy Mimosa. So that term 'Champagne of the North' is apt. Very tasty.

Good to hear.  There's some interesting data in Jess Caudill's NHC presentation on the use of WY 1007 for low pH fermentation.

I recently gave the Omega lacto culture a try for the first time and it's super fast - completely soured in a couple of days at around 75-80°.  I did boil that batch to shut the lacto down before re-pitching my culture of 1007 & 5526.  The 1007 finished in ~ 3 days (1.031 - 1.007) while the Brett chewed away for about two months.  I haven't taken a gravity reading in awhile, but I would imagine it's pretty low.  It's clean, super tart and fruity/cherry pie.  I'm bottling it this weekend.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2015, 07:51:26 PM »
I have never needed to add O2 after a lacto ferment prior to pitching my ale yeast or a brett strain.  The yeasts have always fermented well even when the pH had dropped quickly prior to adding them to the soured beer. 

Offline erockrph

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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2015, 06:04:02 AM »
I have never needed to add O2 after a lacto ferment prior to pitching my ale yeast or a brett strain.  The yeasts have always fermented well even when the pH had dropped quickly prior to adding them to the soured beer.
Do you oxygenate prior to pitching the lacto? I think oxygenation is probably most important for when you aggressively try to minimize O2 exposure during the lacto ferment (such as fermenting under CO2).
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Using lactobacillus
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2015, 12:02:48 PM »
No need or desire to oxygenate prior to a lacto pitch. It is an anaerobic process that we want in order to avoid promoting the growth of other aerobic or heterotrophic organisms.
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