Author Topic: HELP.... off flavor issue  (Read 1786 times)

Offline tommymorris

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2706
Re: HELP.... off flavor issue
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2015, 09:22:04 PM »

My buddy runs s23 @ ale temps all of the time but I don't think it ever reaches 70F. He crashes and lagers normally however I don't think he classifies his beers as 'lagers'.

I am still not sure that my palate understands the difference between ales and lagers. I have a disorder known as 'dumb palate'. I guess I would have to do two identical batches with an ale yeast and a lager yeast for comparison.
Lager is a type of yeast. Lagers are generally made with lager yeast. A common characteristic of beers called lagers are clean fermentation (no fruity ester flavors, diacetyl, fusels, etc).

You can make a very clean beer with some ale yeasts. Some breweries do this and call the beer a lager.  That's OK if the beer is clean and otherwise tastes like a beer in one of the lager categories.

For this thread, the chief characteristic of a lager is a clean fermentation free of esters, diacetyl, fusels, and other off flavors.

Offline Iliff Ave Brewhouse

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3897
Re: HELP.... off flavor issue
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2015, 09:30:51 PM »
I realize that lager is a type of yeast. My first lager is currently fermenting with lager yeast. I was basically saying that if someone handed me a beer I probably wouldn't be able to tell if it was fermented with ale or lager yeast. If they told me the style of the beer, I would have to make an assumption on yeast type.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 09:37:53 PM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Wheat, Citrus IPA, Festbier, New School Pale

Fermenting: chocolate pumpkin porter
Up Next: hoppy amber lager, IPA

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4439
  • Play Nice
    • Harvey's Brewhaus
Re: HELP.... off flavor issue
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2015, 09:42:45 PM »
I realize that lager is a type of yeast. My first lager is currently fermenting with lager yeast. I was basically saying that if someone handed me a beer I probably wouldn't be able to tell if it was fermented with ale or lager yeast. If they told me the style of the beer, I would have to make an assumption on yeast type.

general populous doesn't necessarily know the diff between lager and ale. i agree,making a lager you typically want the lager characteristics and not ale characteristics. there certainly are clean ale yeast fermented cool that some may not know they are drinking a ale. for me, if i was making a lager, and fermented it above 60F (likely lower say 55F) i'd know it. there certainly cleaner lager yeasts, but i still feel warmer fermented lagers will suffer-and most ales will also. I guess it all comes down to what you want and what you are willing to drink.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 11:49:58 PM by wort-h.o.g. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Online majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9983
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: HELP.... off flavor issue
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2015, 11:48:42 PM »

I realize that lager is a type of yeast. My first lager is currently fermenting with lager yeast. I was basically saying that if someone handed me a beer I probably wouldn't be able to tell if it was fermented with ale or lager yeast. If they told me the style of the beer, I would have to make an assumption on yeast type.

I think if you and I sat down for 30 minutes with an assortment of lagers and ales you'd leave with a better understanding.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4439
  • Play Nice
    • Harvey's Brewhaus
Re: HELP.... off flavor issue
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2015, 11:51:26 PM »

I realize that lager is a type of yeast. My first lager is currently fermenting with lager yeast. I was basically saying that if someone handed me a beer I probably wouldn't be able to tell if it was fermented with ale or lager yeast. If they told me the style of the beer, I would have to make an assumption on yeast type.

I think if you and I sat down for 30 minutes with an assortment of lagers and ales you'd leave with a better understanding.

+1 that's actually a great way to educate yourself on it. I did that at a small brewery once years ago (long before brewing and any real knowledge on the difference between ales and lagers).
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline Iliff Ave Brewhouse

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3897
Re: HELP.... off flavor issue
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2015, 04:11:16 PM »
I suppose you guys are right. I have started to enjoy German style beers and lagers recently. I obviously notice a lot of differences but I equate it to the different ingredients all around not just the yeast. Obviously the yeast plays a very large role...
On Tap/Bottled: Wheat, Citrus IPA, Festbier, New School Pale

Fermenting: chocolate pumpkin porter
Up Next: hoppy amber lager, IPA

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8604
Re: HELP.... off flavor issue
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2015, 04:53:07 PM »
In Texas any beer over (i think) 5% abv is an ale. So it also has a lot to do with where a beer is transported. For example, Full Sail Session is pretty obviously a Lager, until it gets to Texas. So if you live down there and brew over 5% abv beers, it doesn't matter what yeast you use, they are all ales.

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
HELP.... off flavor issue
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2015, 05:03:44 PM »
In Texas any beer over (i think) 5% abv is an ale. So it also has a lot to do with where a beer is transported. For example, Full Sail Session is pretty obviously a Lager, until it gets to Texas. So if you live down there and brew over 5% abv beers, it doesn't matter what yeast you use, they are all ales.
Not as of mid-2012. It was 4% ABW, so 5% ABV as you said. The other option was to label it malt liquor.  Both options are like calling a dog over 50lb a donkey. Now all that is needed is the ABV.

Brings up another question. Why are all the wacky beer laws we often cite based on ABW while we almost exclusively see and use ABV? 3.2 ABW beer is the other primary example.

Offline mexjj

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: HELP.... off flavor issue
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2015, 07:42:19 PM »
The flow rate through the carbon filter was not indicated. For chlorine removal, we can generally get by with a flow rate of about 1 gallon per minute for the 10-inch filters. For chloramine removal, the flow rate has to be dropped even further to about 0.1 gallons per minute. If you were pushing water through the filter faster than this, it is likely that there was residual chlorine or chloramine in the brewing water that does create chlorophenols. Be aware that the taste threshold for chlorophenols is very low and it only takes a teeny bit of the chlorine or chloramine to ruin the beer.

Thanks for your input. much appreciated   The flow rate Im using is much higher that 1 gal per min.. I was concerned with this, but after testing the water for chlorine, and not getting any readings,, I was convinced the filter was able to handle the high rate of flow and still be able to remove it significantly enough.. The water had no readings, and no smell or taste of chlorine..  and I have since found out that there is no chloramine in the cities water.. so at least that is good news.. Like I mentioned,, I have brewed with this same method time and time again, and have produced fantastic results.. not sure why now,, something has changed.. I will know if it was the filter after I ferment this one out,,, can only be the water in my opinion.. The yeast I have used like this at these temps over and over with fantastic results.. so im not convinced its a yeast-temp issue..as all the years ive been doing this, never had an issue with it before.. it taste clean, and after I lager it for 10 days at 2c  it settles like a rock and is clear as can be,, has a nice dry clean lager finish,, some fantastic beer ... but if this brew dosent turn out.. then Im going to really have to look at it closer..   cheers  john