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Author Topic: First time Lacto user  (Read 1382 times)

Offline jlevensailor

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First time Lacto user
« on: December 30, 2014, 06:15:34 pm »
I want to make a "Mimosa Gose" for next summer and had a few questions:

1. I'm using Wyeast 5335 Lactobacillus buchneri and have made a starter. I used 100g Light DME to 1000ml water and boiled for 10 minutes, then cooled to 100F and pitched the yeast. I took out of the fridge and ran under some lukewarm water to not shock it. I then covered my Erlenmeyer with sanitized foil and put on a stir plate. After reading about Lacto temperature needs I used a carboy heatband around the flask and it quickly got to around 120F. When I saw this about an hour later I removed the used more loosely and it got to appropriate 100-110F range. Question is its been 24 hours and I don't see the much different, no krausen, just clear solution, did I kill my lacto?

2. I've read two recipes for Goses and there seems to be some discrepancies on whether to boil the wort after pitching the lacto and before pitching the normal ale yeast. I had planned on waiting for fermentation to complete from the lacto, then aerate again, dropping the temp some and pitch the ale yeast. Can someone talk me through this?
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Offline kramerog

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Re: First time Lacto user
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2014, 08:00:51 am »
While I can't speak to the 5335 in particular, it is pretty unlikely that the lacto would be dead.  120* is at or near the upper range of their activity range.  The lacto maybe "stunned"  and may take a while to get back going, but ....

Lacto 5335 does not generate CO2 so you won't see a krausen.  You can monitor the fermentation by monitoring pH.  Lacto 5335 only eats glucose IIRC so measuring gravity is not a particularly useful way to measure progress.

You say "aerate again" which suggests to me that you aerated before pitching 5335.  If so that was a mistake but you should be OK ultimately.

Boiling is optional.  Once the pH is below 4.5, there is little or nothing that can hurt you in the wort, but I wouldn't drink it until the ale yeast has finished fermentation .  If you want to develop IBUs then boiling or near boiling is necessary. 

I can't spare more time today to talk you through this.... google sour worting for more info.  Mad Fermentationist is probably a good source of info.  There may be some threads here about berliner weiss that you may find useful.  Good luck!

Offline jlevensailor

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Re: First time Lacto user
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2014, 09:07:03 am »
That was actually very helpful. I read all the sour and wild yeast chapters in "Home Brew Beyond the Basics" and several posts in here but sometimes you just have to ask a direct question to find the answer quicker.

-I didn't know lacto didn't create a krausen
-My ph strips only go down to 4.6 (and hard to read anyway) so I ordered a ph meter last night that goes from 0-14, hopefully that helps
-I read lacto was sensitive to IBUs so i'll find out how much I want to add and boil if necessary.

The other option beside waiting for lacto fermentation to be done, then pitch ale yeast (boiling in between if necessary), would be to create 2 worts with 2 different yeasts and mix at the end. I will contemplate the benefits of both while I await the ph meter and wait for the lacto starter to be done.

thanks again!
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Offline kramerog

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Re: First time Lacto user
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2014, 09:24:02 am »
That was actually very helpful. I read all the sour and wild yeast chapters in "Home Brew Beyond the Basics" and several posts in here but sometimes you just have to ask a direct question to find the answer quicker.

-I didn't know lacto didn't create a krausen
-My ph strips only go down to 4.6 (and hard to read anyway) so I ordered a ph meter last night that goes from 0-14, hopefully that helps
-I read lacto was sensitive to IBUs so i'll find out how much I want to add and boil if necessary.

The other option beside waiting for lacto fermentation to be done, then pitch ale yeast (boiling in between if necessary), would be to create 2 worts with 2 different yeasts and mix at the end. I will contemplate the benefits of both while I await the ph meter and wait for the lacto starter to be done.

thanks again!

Just a few followups,
-5336 does not create a krausen.  Many other lactos can.
-Lacto is sensitive to IBUs, but if you boil after the lacto fermentation you can add hops to your heart's delight
-Boiling loses some of the wheat character.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: First time Lacto user
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2014, 10:36:25 am »
There's another contemporaneous thread that discusses boiling vs. not boiling that may address your questions about which process to follow.

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Offline jlevensailor

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Re: First time Lacto user
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2015, 01:20:45 pm »
Benefits to boiling - insuring you're not going to get sick (perhaps not necessary if using a pure lacto culture) but also "locks in" the sourness/ph. Also if you want to add even a mild amount of hops (5-10IBUs), you'll need to add these in in a post-boil.

Benefits to not boiling - ability to harvest lacto after bottling (or you could just keep a culture from your starter). ability to age the beer for months.

I believe I am going to make 2 batches

batch 1 - make wort, heat to 190, cool to 90, pitch lacto for 3 days, boil, hop, pitch sacc, age 45 days
batch 2 - make wort, boil, cool to 90, pitch lacto for 3 days, aerate, pitch sacc, age 5-6 months.

thoughts?

suggestions on when to add orange peel? after primary fermentation i'm guessing?
thoughts on adding fruit juice to boil to add to gravity/flavor?
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