Author Topic: 60 Minute mash?  (Read 1242 times)

Offline flbrewer

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60 Minute mash?
« on: December 31, 2014, 11:59:18 PM »
Is there any truth to the fact that "grains are modified for brewers" and you can get away with a shorter than 60 minute mash? Anyone tested this with good results?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2015, 12:10:42 AM »
Personally, I mash from 150F up for 60 minutes, sub 150F for 90 minutes. Good results consistently.


EDIT  -  It is true that the bulk of conversion often does take place in less than these time frames, but learning to brew all grain beer especially, I recommend you use these guidelines. I'd venture a guess that the big majority of brewers here very likely do (at least single infusion mashers). You'll make great beer.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 12:20:20 AM by HoosierBrew »
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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2015, 12:19:35 AM »
Its all about the crush, the finer the crush the fast the conversion can take place.

Offline mabrungard

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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2015, 12:24:41 AM »
Conversion from starch to polysaccharides occurs in as little as 15 minutes. However, the conversion of those polysaccharides to fermentable sugars takes more time. Mashing is a balance in the fermentability and body that you want in your wort. An hour or more is a reasonable duration, in my experience.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2015, 12:43:39 AM »
Years ago I ran a lot of experiments on mash times.  I found that indeed the limiting factor is fermentability/attenuation, NOT conversion efficiency.  For my setup, a mash of 20-30 minutes was long enough for "good" attenuation (e.g., in the 70-80% range) about 50% of the time.  The other 50% of the time, I was getting very high final gravities like in the 1.020s.  35 minutes was better.  40 minutes was always long enough.

Conclusion: I usually mash for 40 minutes these days, or 45 minutes if I'm lazy.  I only mash for 60 minutes or more when I'm making a monster high gravity beer or when I want a really dry beer like a saison, or if using a very high percent (like for a Munich dunkel) of a very low enzymatic malt (e.g., Munich malt).  Otherwise, for 95% of beer styles...

40 minutes is plenty.  Save 20+ minutes of your life on every batch, if you want to.  Works great for me.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 03:46:12 AM by dmtaylor »
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Offline phunhog

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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2015, 03:18:34 AM »
I have thinking about shortening my mash times to 45 minutes. Using a refractometer I have noticed no significant increases in gravity past that time.  Plus by the time I run off my first runnings, fill up the MLT, and vorlauf the grain bed has been at mash temps for probably close to 75-80 minutes.  So why not not shorten the "official" mash time to 45 minutes?

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2015, 03:32:19 AM »
I have thinking about shortening my mash times to 45 minutes. Using a refractometer I have noticed no significant increases in gravity past that time.  Plus by the time I run off my first runnings, fill up the MLT, and vorlauf the grain bed has been at mash temps for probably close to 75-80 minutes.  So why not not shorten the "official" mash time to 45 minutes?

There are breweries that rest for only 20 minutes. Some of those wet mill with hot water so the mash begins with milling. Then they pump from the mash tun into the lauter tun, that takes some time for large batch sizes such as 200 barrels, no.
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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2015, 02:49:42 PM »
I have thinking about shortening my mash times to 45 minutes. Using a refractometer I have noticed no significant increases in gravity past that time.  Plus by the time I run off my first runnings, fill up the MLT, and vorlauf the grain bed has been at mash temps for probably close to 75-80 minutes.  So why not not shorten the "official" mash time to 45 minutes?

There are breweries that rest for only 20 minutes. Some of those wet mill with hot water so the mash begins with milling. Then they pump from the mash tun into the lauter tun, that takes some time for large batch sizes such as 200 barrels, no.

A lot of those breweries are also vorlaufing for another 20-30 minutes, during which time "mashing" is still happening.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2015, 05:23:33 PM »
I have thinking about shortening my mash times to 45 minutes. Using a refractometer I have noticed no significant increases in gravity past that time.  Plus by the time I run off my first runnings, fill up the MLT, and vorlauf the grain bed has been at mash temps for probably close to 75-80 minutes.  So why not not shorten the "official" mash time to 45 minutes?

There are breweries that rest for only 20 minutes. Some of those wet mill with hot water so the mash begins with milling. Then they pump from the mash tun into the lauter tun, that takes some time for large batch sizes such as 200 barrels, no.

A lot of those breweries are also vorlaufing for another 20-30 minutes, during which time "mashing" is still happening.

Yep, the enzymes are working before and after the "mash".
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Offline Steve Ruch

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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2015, 10:10:57 PM »
Several years ago I went to a 45 minute mash and didn't notice any difference. I'll go longer for a high grav beer or one I want drier.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2015, 10:30:03 PM »
I have thinking about shortening my mash times to 45 minutes. Using a refractometer I have noticed no significant increases in gravity past that time.  Plus by the time I run off my first runnings, fill up the MLT, and vorlauf the grain bed has been at mash temps for probably close to 75-80 minutes.  So why not not shorten the "official" mash time to 45 minutes?

There are breweries that rest for only 20 minutes. Some of those wet mill with hot water so the mash begins with milling. Then they pump from the mash tun into the lauter tun, that takes some time for large batch sizes such as 200 barrels, no.

A lot of those breweries are also vorlaufing for another 20-30 minutes, during which time "mashing" is still happening.
One nice thing about my direct fire recirculation, sometimes I only mash for a minute, then vorlauf and done. Of course vorlauf is about 60 minutes...

Offline beersk

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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2015, 05:05:38 AM »
What are some factors for a less attenuable wort? I have a taddy porter (BCS recipe) sitting in the fermenter right now, mashed at 153 for an hour, that is still only at 1.021 after nearly 2 weeks. I used US-05, pitched dry, aerated with O2 for 60 seconds, and fermented in the 60's. Not to hijack the thread, but why would this beer underattenuate like this? I know it's only been like 12 days, but it should be pretty much done in that timeframe.
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Offline JT

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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2015, 10:44:07 AM »
Thermometer calibration ok? Stressed yeast?  I always rehydrate.  Too cool fermentation temperature?

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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2015, 01:29:50 PM »
Need to know grain bill.

Offline beersk

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Re: 60 Minute mash?
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2015, 05:37:56 PM »
It fermented around 62-64. This is for 7 gallons, split between two 5 gallon kegs, a pack of US-05 pitched in each. OG ended up being 1.060, overshot by 8 points, whoopsie...
And for a thermometer I use a Thermopen.

5 lbs 4.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 38.53 %
5 lbs 4.0 oz Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 38.53 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.17 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 9.17 %
10.0 oz Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM)

Sorry to hijack, flbrewer...
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 05:40:27 PM by beersk »
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